Offense vs. Defense

  • So I have 2 questions:
    1.) With a defensive play-style, what is the best way to defeat robber hideouts which require an ever-growing offensive army? With a small offensive army to deal with robbers, you army has many losses when it attacks and your hero loses a lot of health. And in order to replace your loses, it takes time and resources away from building defensive troops.

    2.) If you wanted to play as a Roman with defense, then why not go Gauls? Or play as Roman with offense, why not go Teutons? Are they not more suited to a particular play-style than Romans?

    Thanks in advance.

    Edit: Obviously the first question doesn't apply to kings.

  • 1)
    The Troops in the robber hideouts are calculated after your biggest offensive army. Whoever scouts are offensiv units.
    You can build up a small army with +1k Units and 1 ram, then wait till the camps attack you and attack them, so you only have to defeat half of the troops.

    2) Gauls are the most useless
    The best defense is a combination from Romans (praetorian )and Teutons (spearman).
    Offense are Teutons the best with Clubswinger, but the problem is their supply.
    Second best are Romans with Caesaris.

    Before we start a big discussion, I always calculate after Fighting Power/Building Time for offensiv troops

    Most Important, you can play any playstyle with any folk, activity and brain are the key items.

  • Well to start a discussion on the defensive topic.

    Gauls is certainly NOT the worst. They are probably the best defensive tribe there is. Your assumption that Spearmen and praetorians is best is only half true. Those units packs the highest defensive per crop ratio in the game. In that case they are the best. But to be honest defense per crop ratio is not the problem for a defender. Big weaknesses for praetorians is their training time, their cost and their travel speed. You will not be able to defend anything if your troops can't make it there in time.

    Gauls got defensive units which is great in both the stable and the baracks. The phalanx is probably the best defensive unit in the game and thats the reason you see phalanxes everywhere. They are cheap, they build fast and they got a great travel speed. They complement phalanxes with druids. Druids is kind of a luxuary defensive unit as their cost and building time is pretty big. But instead they are extremly fast and will make it to almost any attack if you are active enough.

    You could argue that the spearman is not far from the phalanx. Thats true, but their defensive stats is not as evenly distributed and they also complement their spearmans with paladins instead. Paladins is just a way worse druidrider. The same idea as the druidrider but instead they are very slow for a cavalry unit. Therefore the big strength in cavalry defense is almost lost.

    Romans also got the legionare which is weaker, slower, have a bigger cost and training time than the phalanx. Another downside to them is that they are built in the baracks. The same as the praetorian. Sure legionares got offensive power, but as we are strictly talking about defensive units here i am not taking that into account.

    The defender always got an advantage on the offensive player. Offensive troops is only possible to be built in one village. Defenders could use multiple villages to build defensive troops. This way a defender is regaining their troops on a MUCH higher rate than an offender. Therefore if you as an offensive player manage to run into an anvil its in 99% of the cases a loss for you. Killing defensive troops should almost never be the goal. Chiefing villages/destroying villages/stealing treasures should be the goal. If your army die you will have a downtime for 1-3 weeks at least until you have managed to regain an big enough hammer.

    If you plan on playing actively in a big alliance where there will always be attacks to defend against i would certainly recommend gauls. They are able to reach most attacks in time and they are able to regain their troops fast.

    If you instead plan on playing your own race with villages close to each others and just minding your own buisness until someone decides you are a good target for them. Then romans could be good. They are able to pack their crop production with alot of defensive stats. But keep in mind that praetorians shouldn't be wasted at the same rate as phalanxes is able to be.

    To summarize all the tribes is able to adapt a defensive and offensive playstyle. Play whatever you like the most. If you're theorycrafting and want to play the best tribe there is then i would probably say Gauls is the best defensive tribe and teutons/romans is the best offensive tribe.

  • 1)
    The Troops in the robber hideouts are calculated after your biggest offensive army. Whoever scouts are offensiv units.
    You can build up a small army with +1k Units and 1 ram, then wait till the camps attack you and attack them, so you only have to defeat half of the troops.

    Not according to what the staff have told me heer, hideouts are based on a combination of the total attack value of all your troops and the total resource production of your account.

    Defence players are at serious disadvantage when it comes to robbers

  • What i have seen people do in the past and which worked very well:

    that person trained during the server only in 1 village troops (including GB&GS) and he had a small hammer of 3k sword & 3k TT's + some rams to clear the hideouts
    but he focussed to have as many villages as possible

    and a few days before the wonders spawned he started creating phalanx in +15 villages so he ended up with a ok def army when it was needed at the wonder

    but i think this strategy only works when you have a safe (strong) kingdom so ppl dont dare to farm you :)

    there are some flaws to this strategy but in the situation i saw it it was pretty viable, please also note that he had a TS in that vilage and he had always one of the better standards so his def could reach alot of defcalls.

    and i totally disagree with bomberbob gauls are in my (humble) opinion the best deftribe there is ;)

  • Stekarn understands it well. One thing I'd like to add: Gaul Theutates hammer as an attacker that uses raw speed is very underrated, always has been. If used well, in combination with a nice scout'hammer', it can completely devastate an enemy team, in particular on follow homes, wiping an account of all its troops efficiently (killing defense should in general never be the goal, but the exception is if it can be done without any damage to the offense), taking treasures and killing endgame hammers.

    Also, this is all for individual players, it would perhaps be interesting to see a discussion on how a team could best optimize their defense players. Although that might just amount to "all romans build preatorians, all teutons build spears, all gauls build phalanxes and maybe some druids"...Either way, having a defense team consisting ONLY of Gaul players cannot possibly be optimal in all scenarios. One obvious scenario would be where the all Gaul team would be fighting an all Roman team. I'm pretty sure the Roman team would keep cleaving through the phalanxes rather easily.