Banning reasons

  • Georgi,


    Thank you for the response and link in the other thread. I just want complete and utter assurance that simply bidding in the auctions is not going to cause a ban.


    That won't get you banned, yes :)


    Kind regards

    Community Manager
    Travian Kingdoms International

  • Lucky, those kinds of threats are useless. I have no idea who in Samurai got banned but most of us here in xTools dont like it one bit. WHat will this server look like without you guys? There will be zero to do. Nada.


    Now if you guys cheated..... I want you banned.... but the vast array of people this has effected makes me think it has to be some kind of crazy bug. It has to be.


    @Broken. Well Georgi said it wont so I have to assume it will not. But I am still going to wait to see what happens with all this. I mean in a single day I personally know 4 people that JUST got the ban? that's a ton of bans all in one go. I dont know... seems strange to me.

  • "Silverfraud"


    Gonna need a bit of clarity on that, pal.


    You have your equations for how much an item sells for - so that can't possibly be abused. And any items on the marketplace are free for all to bid on - so that too can't possibly be abused. You can't even access the auction on accounts you are sitting.


    So really, what the hell? We need some serious clarification.


  • Hi Railgunz,
    I am sorry, but as I said I can't disccuss more details about the bans with third parties, especially in the forums.


    Kind regards,
    Georgi

    Community Manager
    Travian Kingdoms International

  • I for one shall not be buying anymore gold or participating in anymore auctions. I plan on deleting tomorrow if nothing gets solved by then. Many others will also be deleting. Maybe the game admins can play by themselves and also pay for gold to run the server. I wish it did not have to come to this, but unless things get resolved I see no future for me here at travian. I've been playing and buying gold for almost 9 years. Shrug, all good things must end sometime.

  • Hi together,


    just a short update for everyone ... there was a bug which could be exploited to generate silver.
    We've banned today those who abused the bug several times. But with the help of the affected players we are convinced that many of them did not abuse it by intention.
    So we've now unbanned the most of the players again.


    For those who are still banned, please get in touch via helpcenter with us.


    Just as a reminder: If you find a bug, that can be exploited - please report it to us - we want a fair game for everyone!
    And btw. the same rule applies for bots/scripts.


    regards,
    Sarge

  • Silverfraud is a global excuse which will leave many players terrified, myself included.

    Silverfraud has been a ban reason since T4, used for things such as silver pushing, though I don't see any possible way to use silver fraudulently in T:K after auction system was changed.


    Regardless, accusations will always get thrown around everywhere when a banned player starts a thread in OF. If someone manages to get banned for let's say silverfraud, they know exactly what they did, but they obviously deny it in the official forum and throw dirt at the admins. This is the reason most official game forums ban public discussion of moderator actions.


    And those who intentionally abused know exactly what they did.

    Multihunter FI
    Forum Admin FI

    The post was edited 2 times, last by Sove ().

  • I have known only one case before this in which a wrongful accusation was made and a player banned and reinstated with punishment for something she absolutely did not do. She was one of the alliance leaders and the WW holder at the time - so the punishment affected the entire alliance and its supporters. She was accused of multi-accounting, and I saw all the correspondence between her and the MH. Her husband played the game in his own account as well as her having an account. At first, everyone assumed that was the basis of the accusation - but long story short, what was the likely cause of the MH's confusion is the way IP addresses change so often in the UK and some player inheriting her IP address and then playing his or her own account. (The MH would hear none of that.) I am certain I had all the facts as they pertain to the player who was banned and her communication with the MH. That MH may well have cost us the server.


    However, in general, the staff has been fair, as far as I know. Others have tried the "I am banned and didn't do anything wrong" or given us one reason when the ban was for something altogether different. Ask to read all the messages back and forth about the ban, and you will almost always be refused.


    I have no way of knowing the full story behind these new bans. Neither does anyone else, other than whoever it was who banned the players, and in at least some of the cases the players banned. We cannot judge whether the bans are unjust. But I truly believe each case will be investigated beyond imposing the bans. Personally, I feel any player (whether a gold spender like Alb and myself or not) deserves a chance to defend him or herself BEFORE a ban is imposed, as well as an opportunity to appeal the decision to admin - also before the ban is imposed. TG staff are all human, and it is entirely human to make mistakes from time to time. PLayers should not have to pay for a potential mistake.


    Nevertheless, cheating in many forms has been a major problem for Travian and many other online games, and the staff deserves our support in stopping it where they can.

  • a chance to defend him or herself BEFORE a ban is imposed, as well as an opportunity to appeal the decision to admin - also before the ban is imposed.

    The thing here is, ban is not yet a punishment even though it is observed by players as such. In reality, a ban is more like a suspension pending investigation. A banned player cannot destroy evidence and is also forced to contact the MH to have the situation resolved

    Multihunter FI
    Forum Admin FI

  • /

    The thing here is, ban is not yet a punishment even though it is observed by players as such. In reality, a ban is more like a suspension pending investigation. A banned player cannot destroy evidence and is also forced to contact the MH to have the situation resolved


    You play yourself, so you know without me telling you that a a three day or longer "suspension" is, to an active player, very damaging to an account. If that is not, in itself, punishment in your eyes, then we wear different lenses. From what I have seen in others (I have never had an account banned, although one UK MH tried very hard, according to her friends, to find a reason to ban me years ago) A banned player can rather quickly get an account reinstated, provided he or she admits wrongdoing and agrees to accept punishment. That does not resemble an appeal to me.


    Look, you and I are on the same side. However, as a MH, you know you have almost total discretion in banning and imposing punishment. There was only the one case I mentioned in which I can say without a doubt the MH was in the wrong. As I said, most of you are fair and honest - but you do make mistakes. You are human.


    The evidence should have been seen and documented before the ban was imposed, so I see no way a player could hide it. Surely, no one can justify banning a player without evidence, nor on suspicion without evidence. We spend months at a time on a server, the game interfering with our real lives in many cases. I know of at least one divorce which can be directly attributed to Travian.


    If there is reason to believe there has been cheating, the facts should be gathered (the evidence preserved), then the MH or other staff contact the player and present him or her with the evidence. The player should have an opportunity to admit or deny, and if a denial to explain. If that staff member still feels there is reason to ban, the player should be able to appeal and present evidence if available to the admin. If the player fails to respond to the staff member in a reasonable time (48 hrs.?), then he or she should have the account suspended until contact is made. But in my opinion, it should be the MH who initiates contact, not the player under suspicion. And no player's account should ever be banned until after a full and complete investigation.


    I want cheating stopped at least as much as you do. However, when there is no cheating, I don't want the player banned. The case I mentioned involved not only one player, but over 100 players, as she was WW holder at the time. She was pressured to accept the punishment, even though she knew she was not in the wrong. To this day, I do not know whether that was an honest mistake by that MH or an abuse of MH powers in his own self interest. It took over three days for her account to be penalized and reinstated, then much much longer to rebuild the buildings lost. Can you tell me that three days in a high level WW was not punishment in itself, even before the pop drop?


    This practice by MH's may not be a major cause of the loss of players, but it has had an effect.

  • Hi,


    no worries, there will definitely no ban for bidding normally. The bug had nothing to do with placing bids, so just procede as you always have.


    kind regards,
    Fisaga

  • The thing here is, ban is not yet a punishment even though it is observed by players as such. In reality, a ban is more like a suspension pending investigation. A banned player cannot destroy evidence and is also forced to contact the MH to have the situation resolved


    There's not much evidence that can be destroyed anymore, ban or not.
    And as DH already said, the ban itself is very clearly a punishment. Even a full reinstatement a less than 12 hours later can screw a lot of things up.



    @DH: your method is a little too soft. While I agree the MH should approach the player and say, "Hey! We caught you doing XYZ, explain!" before a ban, the appeal process should happen after the ban. Your way gives way too much time for someone who knows they're caught to do a lot of damage before they finally get shut down.

  • There's not much evidence that can be destroyed anymore, ban or not.
    And as DH already said, the ban itself is very clearly a punishment. Even a full reinstatement a less than 12 hours later can screw a lot of things up.



    @DH: your method is a little too soft. While I agree the MH should approach the player and say, "Hey! We caught you doing XYZ, explain!" before a ban, the appeal process should happen after the ban. Your way gives way too much time for someone who knows they're caught to do a lot of damage before they finally get shut down.



    My personal feeling is that if you ban someone 2 things should immediately happen.


    1) they cannot be attacked


    2) No troops starve period. If they are found guilty then you can allow their troops to starve while they sit out the ban or punishment. But its BS that albs troops starved if he really did nothing wrong. And this is me saying it, his opponent on this server. i know the code is there since (as we all know) Christmas is no starvation or attack time in T4.4 and so on. So it shouldnt be a problem to allow MHs to do this.