Legios against robbers?

  • Hello everyone!

    I was wondering if legios are a good unit for killing robbers? For a def-roman they would seem like a reasonable alternative to building a small dedicated off. My thinking was, that the extra losses the legionnaires take due to their lower attack power might be less than the extra cost for a dedicated off. Especially in the early game when resources are scarce one could take advantage of the legionnaires versatility.

    Has anyone tried this? I haven't tested this, so any input would be appreciated.
    If this works: Do def-romans typically build a small dedicated off at all, or is relying on legionnaires more cost effective?

  • Legio for robbers are not very efficient.
    Alike clubswingers but the expense on losing them is not worth it.
    And legio isn't that good in making even with their versatility in offense/defense. The def scaling is still quite bad.
    Its better to make an imperian/EI for robbers on your capital and feed the rest of your villages. :)
    Though the time of training imperians is longer but the reso cost per attack input of imperians is worth making than legio for clearing robbers. :)

    "You can do a hundreds of good deeds but everyone will remember the 1 mistake you will do."

  • And legio isn't that good in making even with their versatility in offense/defense. The def scaling is still quite bad.

    Would you say it is worth making legios in the early game, or should a defensive roman go for another unit? I thought they were quite good, since they are decent at everything and dont cost that much.

  • For early game Legionares are your best friend as a defense roman player they are so good I would recommend dedicating your first village entirely to them since their versatility is simply unmatched in the game.
    Whether you stick with the Legionares or transition to imperians depends a bit on how you wish to play. If you predict your account will be small to mid sized or you aren't planning to raid a lot just stick with the Legionares. Even though they are just a tiny bit less efficient than Imperians for their offense power, their sheer utility of being able to be used as defense and having to upgrade only one unit will make it worth it in the end. If you have the hopes and dreams + enough activity and maybe gold to become a large account or intend to raid a lot then make a dedicated village that only produces Imperians and EI's. This is because Imperians are indeed bit more efficient but they take a bit to pay the resource costs back but a larger or raiding account can afford the difference. And since you can afford it you also save a lot by building Imps and EI's from one village saving yourself an Smithly purchase in another village.

    tl;dr: small, mid sized or non raiding accounts you are best off to go with Legionares, big raiding accounts go with Imps and EI's
    In both situations try to get to 1k troops as fast as you can so you can utilize sieging against the robber hideouts to cut your losses.

    As for usefulness of Legionare in general compared to the Preatorian, he is still a good unit but you definitely want to put your focus on the Preatorians. Legionares are better in short term but long term the Preatorians crop advantage will take effect, especially late game when most of your def is just sitting in the wonder or what not.

    If you intend to become a big defense focused account you could try something like this
    Legionares from your starting village, preatorians and scouts from your second, add EI's to your starter when you can and start raiding from it and switch it to Imperians, preatorians from 3rd village, legionares from 4th village. Then follow up with couple resource villages and add about 3 preatorian villages for every legionare producing village. If you have unusually high number of defense Teutons you can even not add any more than just the one Legionare village.
    Or this
    Legionares and scouts from your first village, settle a cropper and start building Imps and EI's there, then add few preatorian and resource villages again maintaining that 1:3 legionare to preatorian ratio.

    For a smaller defense focused account go something like this instead
    Legionares and scouts from the first, add 2 pret producing villages, resource village, pret village and then maintain 1:3 ratio as before.

  • I am a fan of a Legionnaire/Equites Caesaris Off in the capital , because you can use both units as defense aswell. I know they might not be the best, but its the versatility which makes it worth it. Also your Caesaris are twice as fast as Praetorians, your main def-unit so they might be in time where Praetorians would not.
    Therefore I would build the following: Legionnaires + Equites Caesaris in your capital (cropper usually) and Praetorians (+ some Scouts) in your other villages. I would not dedicated a village singlely to Legionnaires as def unit.

  • @Philbaaa
    I have to disagree on that one pretty heavily.
    The Equites Ceasaris is not a defense unit and shouldn't be used to defend outside of the direst of circumstances. Just because EC's have seemingly high defense values doesn't mean they are at all worth to be used in defense.
    Here are some stats to illustrate why this is the case

    Defense - 23 or 31 after HDT
    Cost - 13 resources per point

    Clubswinger (arguably the worst defender in the game)
    Defense - 12.5
    Cost - 14.4 resources per point
    Clubswinger offers similar defense in a pinch (resource cost) but is worse to build just for defense with their lower crop per defense ratio.

    Legionare (worst "real" defender)
    Defense - 42.5
    Cost - 5.3 resources per point

    Praetorian ("best" defender in the game)
    Defense - 50
    Cost - 6.8 resources per point

    As we can see Legionare is actually cheaper defender than Praetorian but offers lower defense value per crop which ultimately makes Praetorians the king of defense (at least for romans)
    People often mistake EC's as good defenders because a stack of 2k of them seems to offer good amount of defense. What people forget is the true cost of the unit. On a strict emergency defense usage they are actually comparable to Clubswingers in their defensive capabilities. Now some players might argue that i'm wrong on this and they can have valid points (such as training time and opportunity cost) but the reason why I consider emergency defense only on their resource cost is that resorting to emergency defense in the first place means that you have made a strategical mistake and probably should have used your resources differently in the first place. From this point of view those 2k EC's defense points could have been acquired with half the cost by using real defensive units (not the mention another 50% savings on crop) and then spending the remaining resources to purchase for example 2k EI's to counterattack or purchased more buildings or what ever you really wished for.

    Now the advice itself isn't that bad, EC's can be built to accompany Legionares and it's not even that bad of a idea, but EC's should never be used to actually defend alongside the Legionaries. That being said EI's are almost strictly superior for this strategy. This is you will either end up being just a cavalry hammer (in the scenario where you use the Legs and they die) which EI's do better as their speed and flexibility is greater for cavalry only strikes) or you don't use the Legionares in defense which paints the question why wasn't the barracks simply building Imperians from the start. Though the fringe case does exist where you do use your Legionares to defend but significant numbers of them don't die for what ever reason in which case EC's are the cavalry of choice. The last situation is bit like going extra safe on the bet, betting you will lose out the infantry portion of your hammer but being positively surprised.

    My own personal preference is to pair them with EI's and use the EI's as a raiding or quick strike units and the Legionares as defenders. Scouts or simply not using the stable work fine as well.

  • I agree. Using ECs for defense, unless its really your last try to defend, is just suicing your account. Their numbers look good. But if you take into account the costs and upkeep, they are just a waste if you defend with them.

    You need the for attacking.

    As for offensive Roman inf. If you are active and raid a lot, go EIs/ECs (depending on your activity, raidings, overall effeciency and development) and make Imps to clean players and impose your will. If you are not as active, raiding with Legos is fine. You can build them along with praets to form a nice defense in case you have a few offline hours.