Kingdom unions: Rebalancing changes discussion

  • Dear players,

    As we have recently published in our blog, all upcoming game worlds will be adapted from the beginning for the Kingdom Unions. As a short recapitulation, these are the most important rebalancing changes for these new starting game worlds:

    • Kingdoms will start with 2 UNLOCKED duke slots and they will always have 2 of them (when 2 kingdoms unite, there will be 4 slots).
    • 10,000 treasures will be required to unlock a treasury slot (instead of 4,000). This will make kingdom sizes smaller on average and slow down territorial progress in general.
    • Treasuries can be built more than once in the same village, increasing territorial flexibility.

    Feel free to discuss here about these changes. We are still developing these kingdom unions, but these are some of their features so far:

    • The union is allowed only between two kingdoms and only once. Once united, it will not be possible to separate them or unite with some other kingdom.
    • The king of the kingdom with fewer victory points will join the resulting kingdom as a "vice king" alongside the original king, with mostly similar rights and tasks. These kings cannot abdicate. Having two kings will lessen the burden of leading a kingdom, making it even possible to effectively do so without the need of extra sitters and duals.
    • The victory points of the smaller kingdom disappear when uniting; they do not stack. Big kingdoms will be better off uniting early on with a strategically valuable partner, as not to lose their VPs when merging with another big kingdom.
    • With the rebalancing changes, there will be smaller kingdoms in the beginning, making it a bigger challenge to grow in size due to the bigger treasury slot requirements. Smaller kingdoms also mean more action, as distances between possible targets and allies are reduced.

    Let us know your thoughts and questions. As a reminder: All new game worlds start with the rebalancing changes (current game worlds are not affected). Kingdom Unions however will be implemented and activated on those worlds during the mid-game, and not from the very beginning.

  • So...

    Kings will now only have 2 dukes to collect tributes from instead of the normal 4.

    This impacts the king's tributes.

    Kings and dukes will both have their tributes cut with it being 10k for a new treasury.

    Was this taken into account with the rebalancing?
    Were king and dukes too over powered with their tributes or was this a necessary fix to combat metas?

    I understand if sacrifices had to be made to kings/dukes in order to combat metas, just would like some clarification since a lot of income will be taken away from kings/dukes.

  • Kings and dukes will both have their tributes cut

    While that's true, tributes were previously becoming rather massive pretty quickly due to the size (and growth) of kingdoms. In general we wanted to push for more and smaller kingdoms on the map. While this means a cut in tributes (for everyone), it should also make the game more exciting with many smaller kingdoms fighting for positional advantages etc. The kingdom unions are then going to introduce a shift during the mid-game, which will bring a boost in terms of territory, players and treasures. This will be a big new decision for every kingdom that will influence how the whole round plays out. Of course kingdoms will be significantly bigger again once the unions happened, but growth will still be way slower than before the rebalancing. So you better make the most out of your limited influence and find a good partner kingdom to join forces with! :)

  • I have the same thought as @Gillies#EN . Kings have WAY LESS crop compared to any other member in the kingdom due to not being able to sell stolen goods which makes duke slots clearly the strongest position in game as you get tributes + you can attack robbers and sell stolen goods. Your hero gets to level up aswell as a duke which is hard to do on king account unless you are very active off player which is also not so easy as a king because you have to have some sitting defense and it takes a toll on crop management yet again. The extra res king is getting from dukes as tributes is not compensating for the need of crop. For example in current com6 im overflowing resources beyond belief and literally dumping it to random nearby players just to avoid wasting it.

  • Thanks for the clarification FabianF!

    There's no way to know how much it will actually affect kings/dukes until a full round is played.

    I'll be on the next com server that starts as a king so I'll be able to provide you with some feedback.

  • Although getting 2 instant duke spots in the beginning will work as a boost for the king in very early stage. That will definitely balance the early game for king compared to govs/dukes who get to sell stolen goods + robber hideouts.

    But i really started to think about the issue with kings hero leveling as it's only natural way of gaining xp is quests or adventures which don't get your hero levels past lvl 15? :D or like.. it takes unnaturally long time speically compared to govs/dukes farming robber camps and hideouts. I believe what agony full def playing kings must feel. maybe there should be robber hideouts for king aswell. King would be able to level up his hero + gain stolen goods as well. In contrast to keep the balance kings hideouts could be like +20% stronger for example.

    Just my initial thoughts. :)

  • Finally some real hard changes! I love it.
    Kings will need to work a bit harder on the game side instead of the talking side since the role will be shared with someone else.
    Also this will finally allow to have some real diplomacy between kingdoms, and also premade teams that would have co king and dukes could eventually adapt and change. Smaller kingdoms overall, which means that more teams will compete at the end of the server, while making the server all along fun because people will need to fight over WW territory and over their kingdom territory since there will be more kingdoms. Confederations between kingdoms towards a single common goal while having other real objectives will be possible without a meta since it won't be possible for them to join afterwards.
    I'm already imagining how the server could look like all along and I love it.
    Kings can be def kings and raid just like anyone else, on last COM1, Knight (BM former king) had 300k def and he was top raider, it won't be as easy for kings to have enormous troop numbers like it is right now, but it still possible.

    Glad you guys are finally taking some real steps towards something that would make the game more fun and create opportunities for everyone, not only a few.

  • Considering tributes in the beginning are basically worthless and a king can get a 2nd village settled within 3 days and open a 2nd duke slot, I don't think 2 dukes right away is changing anything, to me, that part is changing politics more than anything.

    I also agree with you that it would be nice if a king had a way to level their hero too, but there are pros and cons to every position, gov, duke, king.

    For a king

    pro - lots of tributes later in the server, they do get to be a bit excessive

    con - no robber hide outs or stolen goods = harder to level hero

    But with this new update, it may prove that tributes were slashed too much for kings and they will either need to change the system again or provide kings with an added pro, such as hideouts.

    We won't know though until a server or 2 is complete with the new system.

  • Actually as far as a King goes, if you have active players you do very well. Get cursed with an inactive bunch and you are in trouble. I'm guessing that this change will only mean that the Kings of the best alliances are not so overwhelming - won't make much difference lower down the scale where being a King already sucks. :)

  • Actually as far as a King goes, if you have active players you do very well. Get cursed with an inactive bunch and you are in trouble. I'm guessing that this change will only mean that the Kings of the best alliances are not so overwhelming - won't make much difference lower down the scale where being a King already sucksI

    I agree as that further proves the need of boosting King spot.

  • Why only merge kingdoms once? Why not multiple times like what happened in history with dynastic marriages? How about introducing something like a 'Kingdom merge event.' randomly to allow kingdoms to grow? I'm not a fan of date fixed events because the spontaneity of the game suffers and players are just following a formula...

    Allow mergers of kingdoms that are not contiguous -- forces planning for future growth...

    And it doesn't have to be only one type of merger -- Let the server managers decide on the requirement. Say, only kingdoms smaller than NNN victory points or we will allow mergers in sets of three. This is a dynamic way to balance the server. If one Kingdoms is running away with the server allow only smaller kingdoms to merge...

    And instead of a 'sub-king' call that role a 'baron' or 'earl' using names from history.

    Also, allow 'barons' or 'earls' when they abdicate to take their territory with them -- this also happened in history.

    Just my thoughts...

    Being just an old grognard returning to the game after a couple of years away I LOVE the Kingdoms idea and will focus on this going forward.

  • The reason for reducing the merge options is simple - left to their own devices it seems that leaders of the biggest Kingdoms naturally gravitate to each other and form a mega Kingdom (the meta) which can then "Sim to the Win" (TM).

    Every one's a winner! Well except that it's boring and many people leave the server - that happens too often and people leave the game altogether. Travian are desperate to stop these metas from developing, but everything they try proves but a small obstacle to those determined to succeed with minimum effort...

  • interesting , we can change everything to make it harder to play and cost us more gold, but you cannot fix the cheaters, multis etc etc , this will make it far more strategic in the way duke's and players place there villages . it will be interesting to see how the masterminds like Gilles/Tonka and others work this . all i see is a whole lot of confeds .