[Farmer Building] - Vote for 15C game mechanic

    Would you like to see the Farmer building mechanic on a Test Server? 109

    1. Yes! (79) 72%
    2. No! (16) 15%
    3. Maybe .. (14) 13%

    Background

    A while back there was a discussion about the problems of the relocation of 15 croppers (link: Relocating 15-Croppers). In this thread an idea was discussed, which basically was to letting players themselves have the "expensive" but available option to over time transform the resource fields into farm lands. This thread eventually died down as the problem of relocating 15Cs were fixed. However, a new problem with 15Cs took its place, namely that players are using multi accounts to fast settle 15Cs with no intention of using them, with the sole intent of blocking others from using these 15Cs. As a response, game designer @Sheila have come forward with a new idea about the 15C dynamic (link: [discussion] 15cropper – your feedback is needed ). Although I did write my proposal in Sheila's thread, I think it would be interesting to see how you all feel about the idea I proposed there using this poll. So thank you if you decided to participate.


    Proposed Mechanics

    - All tiles on the map starts as 4446, 3447, 4347, 4437, and the "5346" variations.

    - Natar villages still exists as they do today.

    - Oases exist and works as they do today.

    - A new Building called "Farmer" is added to the game. It can only be built in your capital.

    - The farmer is able to transform Clay pits and Forests to Farm lands.

    - The number of Clay pits and Forests it can transform depends on the building's level.

    - [Example] For each level between level 1 and 10 the farmer can transform 1 Clay pit or Forest a Farm land.

    - [Optional] For each level between level 11 and 20 the farmer gives a bonus to crop production (Like the Mill or Bakery).

    - The farmer is a very expensive building, but it allows anyone whom can afford it to obtain a "cropper" over time.


    Re-using some of the games old art, and adding some stuff myself, I made an example of how this building could look.

    farmer2.png


    With this idea we can hopefully see a few desired outcomes. No more internal drama about who in your group will get the 15Cs, no more race to the 15Cs, and not more "theifs" of the 15C's by multi account cheaters. It's simple and plain, are you active enough to afford it, you'll get one eventually.



    Thanks you for taking your time to vote :thumbup: or :thumbdown:

    Basically agree to transform a normal Villa into a cropper Villa. But why only in the capital? And what happens if capital changes?


    Additionally there should be a tool that 1 res field (lumber, clay, stone) could be transformed in any other res field (lumber, clay, stone). This would make more sense when claiming oasis and not being in first position. Like this, the FARMER would be a powerfull item / building.

    Quote from Xenaydo#DE

    Basically agree to transform a normal Villa into a cropper Villa. But why only in the capital? And what happens if capital changes?


    Additionally there should be a tool that 1 res field (lumber, clay, stone) could be transformed in any other res field (lumber, clay, stone). This would make more sense when claiming oasis and not being in first position. Like this, the FARMER would be a powerfull item / building.

    I think giving the opportunity to make every village a cropper is too much so I like the fact that it is only the capital. If the capital changes it is like when a city transform to a village, fields are reduced, and every fields should go back to normal as level say 10 ( assuming the crop fields were higher than 10)

    Quote from Xenaydo#DE

    Basically agree to transform a normal Villa into a cropper Villa. But why only in the capital? And what happens if capital changes?


    Additionally there should be a tool that 1 res field (lumber, clay, stone) could be transformed in any other res field (lumber, clay, stone). This would make more sense when claiming oasis and not being in first position. Like this, the FARMER would be a powerful item / building.


    Thanks for taking your time to comment Xenaydo#DE .


    Why only in your capital?

    The reason why I personally would like to see Croppers only being possible to obtain in Capitals is because the croppers should be something special. Furthermore, the Farmer will probably be very expensive, so it will really only make sense to build it in your Capital where fields can be upgraded beyond level 12. Capitals can furthermore not be chiefed, which hinder abuse of one player using multi accounts to prepare croppers from his main account to chief.


    What if you change capital?

    Just as with other Capital restricted buildings the Farmer building will be lost if you change capital. Also fields upgraded to a higher level than 10 or 12 will be reduced to level 12 if it is a city, and to level 10 if it is a village. With the Farmer lost, and the Capital village status gone, the clay pits and forests will again come back as there are no farmer to maintain the new Farm lands.


    What if your Farmer Building gets destroyed?

    As long as your village or city is a capital, all progress made by the farmer in terms of transforming Forests and Clay pits to Farm lands will remain if the Farmer building gets destroyed. Should you lose your farmer at level 7 you would need to rebuild it to level 8 in order to transform your nest Forest and Clay pit to a Farm land.


    Why not have the option to freely "Terra-form" between all 4 resource types?

    This is for a few different reasons. First being because I think it contradicts logic to be able to transform a forest into a mountain. Even removing a mountain and replacing it with a clay pit does little sense. It would be good to maintain some logic and reasonable connection to reality. Secondly, free terra-forming appear to have been discussed and dismissed by the Travian Dev Team as Sheila mentions in the quote below. The Developer Team fear it will create a "Noon Trap" to allow players to terra-form freely among all Res Types.

    Quote from Sheila

    Yes, the idea of terraforming the resource fields has been brought up and discussed thoroughly. This would be a huge game changer. After evaluating the pros andcons, our conclusion is that we will keep the resource fields as they are. The15c or even 9c should keep their importance and be rare on the map to keep themas valuable targets. Also, it could be noob trap and players might specializein producing one resource not thinking about consequences such a decision hason the whole round.

    I would like to chip regarding the whole "only clays, crops and forests" thing. I would just enable them all purely because it's better balance otherwise the capital meta will just be to settle a 3 iron field site for maximum gains. Regarding realism (which isn't very good argument against pure gameplay like balance to begin with), most medieval areas weren't fully cultivated or utilized like they are today. In fact you can see it in the greater map around your village when zoomed to the field level. There are couple lakes and bigger mountains and lots of forests around. You could pretty easily make the argument that the field limits aren't really about the natural resources but rather a question of labor utilization and from that perspective it's easy to see why you should also be able to switch to and from iron fields. Let's say that the normal layout represents the "natural" resources most easily utilized by the village but with this "surveyor/farmer/terraformer" building built you can stop working that iron mine near the village and turn more of the outlaying lands into farms and send workers there (for a small or not so small price of course)


    Noob trapping is a bit of problem but I don't think denying the ability to switch your irons out would save the noob either when he starts pushing the clays-be-gone button. It's somewhat of an inherent problem with this idea but sometimes you just need to let players make bad choices so long as your design isn't intentionally leading them to stupid positions.


    Limiting the building to a capital CITY would be a good help as that prevents first day uses of it. Another would be to keep the levels of the field when you use it (as that enables for a quick back switch) though that might be bit OP. Another would be that you just set the max number of crops (or any field type if you want to enable 1-15-1-1 villages I suppose) to 6 at lvl 2 and then go up by 1 every 2 levels finish up at 15 fields at lvl 20. Each type shouldn't be able to be reduced below 1 either. You could also make it so that it's cheaper to convert from something with a lot to something that has less so if you make a mistake you could undo that bit easier.


    Also I don't think the field revert is needed if the capital changes (be it because of attack or because of you switching it). You can pretty trivially price out the "I will make 2 croppers" option from players (you could tune the building to work even tighter granting max 5 of same type at lvl 10 and then going up by 1 per level if it's too cheap) and with everyone having access to a cropper the multi abuse or players attacking others to gain their croppers wouldn't be such a big deal. Afterall you could simply chief a natar if you wanted another 15c as there's way less competition.

    Quote from Curtain

    I would like to chip regarding the whole "only clays, crops and forests" thing. I would just enable them all purely because it's better balance otherwise the capital meta will just be to settle a 3 iron field site for maximum gains.

    Yes, maybe that is the better option. Thanks Curtain .


    Quote from Curtain

    Also I don't think the field revert is needed if the capital changes (be it because of attack or because of you switching it). You can pretty trivially price out the "I will make 2 croppers" option from players

    Yes, you are most likely correct here too.

    One more thing that should be considered regarding this proposal.


    Not every location will now be viable as a a good 15C capital. Oases Bonus will still be a key determinant when deciding were to place your capital and start increasing the number of Farmlands. So there will still be contested locations on the map ( Sheila ).

    Great idea.

    I'd say costs should scale exponentially with the number of transformed fields.

    I don't like the idea of limiting it to the capital. I also don't like the idea of it being possible in every valley, perhaps limit it to certain "fertile" valleys.

    Perhaps every valley should have a certain maximum of crop tiles, which means that there would still be competition for the "best" locations.

    This would also pose a good alternative to the players who think having a 9c is not enough, but find the leveling of a 15c too gold intensive.

    The area around the wonders should have a very limited amount of transformable valleys.

    I think it's a really good and interesting idea. But a lot more thought needs to go into it to make it a viable part of Travian.
    E.g. everyone clusters their capitals amongst 50% crop oases. Everyone is competing for best oasis bonus, but you have no way to say "this person deserves/needs it more because they have a greater potential to utilise the crop bonus". Other than the king/dukes demanding certain players be favouritised.

    As such I would suggest some predictable method of limiting which/how many villages can be slowly "terraformed".
    Cost is an obstacle, but it can't be so great that only extreme farmers will be able to afford it. Then multiaccounts will just operate differently to create easy farms for themselves (or sharing res around) to create the strongest croppers.

    Perhaps a limit on how many croppers can be within proximity of oases and/or the WW. However I am less concerned about croppers crowding the WW as there are few oases around it so it's less efficient.

    I don't actually like my suggestion...not sure how to work it out.

    Maybe the stronger the crop bonus of a region the fewer croppers you can have in it? If your neighbour gets a 15c first, then you have to settle for a 14c :(
    This reduces competition in the same kingdom. But creates competition amongst enemies through battle! Knock out one of their fields and it will revert and now you need to quickly convert yours.


    You could also just make it so only certain tiles can be terraformed. But if someone takes it and doesn't make a capital then another nearby might become a "terraformable" tile to prevent multis stopping others getting croppers.