In depth look at EC I wanted to do for a while.

  • First lets list some stats.

    I will be giving comments along the way.

    I used the tool for these stats but you probably already know these already.


    ATK per cost: Rank 8/15

    Worst attack unit in the game in this aspect. It is even beaten by a leggionaire which is a hybrid unit.

    ATK per training time: Rank 2/15

    ONLY place where EC-s shine. The only unit that beats them is clubswinger.

    ATK per crop: 6/15

    This is of course without having a LV 20 horse drinking pool. If you have it maxed this unit becomes barely decent by sharing the 3rd place with Equites Imperatoris and axefigther.


    DEF INF per cost: 12/15

    DEF CAV per cost:8/15

    Overall DEF per cost: 11/15

    This is what I am most bothered about, the description and picture depicts EC-s as heavily armored units. This is in my opinion a trap for new players who might consider using them as def after reading that description. They are not good for def. Scrap that one they are not good for anything except depleting your resources faster when you see an incoming attack.


    DEF INF per crop: 11/15

    DEF CAV per crop: 8/15

    Overall DEF per crop: 11/15

    Same as what I said above. Dont look at the big number on their def rating and think to yourself they might be good for it. They take 3/4 crop.


    Efficiency of stealing resources per cost: 14/15

    Their lowest. They are beated by phalanx, spearfighters and druids.

    Efficiency per training time: 11/15

    Even here they are beated by defensive units. Their raiding ability is abysimally low.


    Troop speed:10 Barely outrunning imperians even with horses.


    *Why EC-s do not fit Romans:

    1. They have real fast training time, Roman units are supposed to take long to build up. So thematically speaking they are only unit out of place.

    2. They are outshined by EI-s in every single aspect except one. Their fast training time is only thing they have superior, but without any other uses they are just bigger resource sinks.

    3. Even though they have same attack you will always rather want 3 EI-s then 2 EC-s because of way combat system works. 1200 units compared to 800 units will have a bigger horde bonus. IIRC* Add the fact that EI-s are faster, carry more and cost less and EC-s just look like that retarded kid you had in class and had to deal with the entire elementary school. Hell even resource wise EI-s are better since they are not iron heavy like other Roman troops so they help you

    balance out your resources better.

    4.They dont fit into the Roman end-game fantasy. (Keep in mind that this is just my opinion :S)


    *Ways to make EC-s usefull:

    Keep in mind romans are already in a pretty good spot so we dont want to add too much power to their unit, even if it is underused one.

    1st proposal: Turn it into a purely defensive unit. Transfer a fair bit of that attack into infantry defense and we might have a thing or 2 we could use it for. That attack is wasted anyways.This buff could look like something like this:

    180 Attack-> 60

    80 Defence (Infantry)->140

    105 Defence (Cavalry)->165


    2nd proposal: Increase carrying capacity, speed and redistribute resource cost. (The less invasive approach I would prefer) This would allow EC-s to contend with EI-s. They dont have to beat the EI-s in any of these aspects, but they just need to stop being so bad compared to them. This buff could look like something like this:

    SPD 10->12

    Carrying capacity 70->90

    Redistribution of resource cost to something more appealing.



    Bonus opinion on EC:

    Waste of such a cool name. ^^

    • New
    • Helpful

    You must have made some error in your calculation. ECs have the highest Atk/(training time) in the game. Ye, they even beat clubs.


    Also, the size bonus does not apply to the number of units, but rather the total Attack power of your OFF army.. so its not correct that you rather want 3 EIs than 2 ECs to get advantage of a ”Horde Bonus”.


    Yes ECs are expensive, but if you can afford it you can enjoy training ECs with the knowledge of that you are training the unit with the highest atk/time in the game.

    "Remember upon the conduct of each depends the fate of all." ― Alexander the Great

    The post was edited 1 time, last by Scorox ().

  • You must have made some error in your calculation. ECs have the highest Atk/(training time) in the game. Ye, they even beat clubs.


    Also, the size bonus does not apply to the number of units, but rather the total Attack power of your OFF army.. so its not correct that you rather want 3 EIs than 2 ECs to get advantage of a ”Horde Bonus”.


    Yes ECs are expemsive, but if you can afford it you can enjoy training ECs with the knowledge of that you are training the unit with the highest atk/time in the game.

    you are right but when calculating with the hero weapon it is better to have 3 EI than 2 EC

  • you are right but when calculating with the hero weapon it is better to have 3 EI than 2 EC

    Better in what way? What I meant there was just that the "Horde/Size Bonus" does not have anything to do with the number of attack units. Hence the choice of 3 EI vs. 2 EC is not affected by that. I think the most useful way to this about the EI vs. EC comparison is this:

    EI's are better in: Atk/Cost (including crop upkeep), More suitable for Ghost hammers due to their speed, Better at farming due to speed and capacity.

    EC's are better in: Atk/Production time ... and having #1 Atk/Production time in the game makes them a really Great OFF unit.

    "Remember upon the conduct of each depends the fate of all." ― Alexander the Great

    The post was edited 1 time, last by Scorox ().

  • You must have made some error in your calculation. ECs have the highest Atk/(training time) in the game. Ye, they even beat clubs.


    Also, the size bonus does not apply to the number of units, but rather the total Attack power of your OFF army.. so its not correct that you rather want 3 EIs than 2 ECs to get advantage of a ”Horde Bonus”.


    Yes ECs are expemsive, but if you can afford it you can enjoy training ECs with the knowledge of that you are training the unit with the highest atk/time in the game.

    My bad. I used this tool as a source, so it probably did not calculate max horse drinking pool level into account. (I completely forgot it was a thing as well)


    Better in what way? What I meant there was just that the "Horde/Size Bonus" does not have anything to do with the number of attack units. Hence the choice of 3 EI vs. 2 EC is not affected by that. I think the most useful way to this about the EI vs. EC comparison is this:

    EI's are better in: Atk/Cost (including crop upkeep), More suitable for Ghost hammers due to their speed, Better at farming due to speed and capacity.

    EC's are better in: Atk/Production time ... and having #1 Atk/Production time in the game makes them a really Great OFF great unit.


    If you check the wiki 3 EI.s will get +45 ATK +45 DEF from the weapon, meanwhile 2 EC-s will get +40/+40 that is what I meant as a horde bonus. That might seem insignificant but quickly piles up.

    Look at it this way. 27/24, 36/32, 45/40 are all 1.125, meaning EI-s get 12.5% more increase from hero weapon. This is even more true during the early game when Romans dont have enough resources to raise the Horse Drinking Pool to max level.


    https://wiki.kingdoms.com/tiki…t+hand+Items+%28Romans%29

  • First: I didn't check your numbers. Whether they're correct or not is irrelevant, because you're asking the wrong questions. It is completely irrelevant, whether EC are better than clubs in terms of any offensive point. You do not have the decision between EC and clubs. You have the decision between Imperian + EC + Ram vs. Club + TR + Ram.

    • Roman EC hammers (with that I mean Imperian + EC + Ram - this will count for analogue cases in the following aswell) are the second best hammers in the game, in terms of attack force per time. And attack force per time is the one single stat, that is relevant for hammers in most cases. You want to train hammers quickly, because unlike defense you can't put two hammers together to fight as one.
    • There may be an exception for WW hammers, their supply might be hard, so you might want to look at supply aswell, but wait, roman EC hammers excel at fighting strength per crop consume, being the best hammer in the game in this term.
    • That one does not build EC as defense unit should be crystal clear. I will not explain in depth why, it's just obvious, they suck at deff. But so do most offensive units. EC just don't suck completely as def, so some people build them as def, whyever.
    • You also don't really want to farm with horses if there are so many farm spikers around, like I heared it in com to be the case. One could opt into training EI in a support village for farming only, but that's another topic. So their carry capacity doesn't matter that much. Maybe a bit, if one is taking the risk of being spiked, but farming with Imps should be better there. Can't speak from too much experience here though, I always opted into either a support village with farm-EI or into a tertiary off with EI (EI's attack force per time is only a few percent below EC's, so it felt okay-ish to do so for a tertiary).
    • Troop speed from off units is mostly irrelevant, you usually send your rams with them. Maybe if you want to bash clubs or a clubhammer you send EC only, but that's ... rare. But yes, that point is somewhat valid, EC's speed is bad.
    • Resource costs don't matter too much aswell, EC off costs roughly 8% more than an EI off, but that's only around 2k resources per hour. You will be able to afford this anyway, also your hammer's supply will quickly cost way more than it's production anyway.

    EC hammers excel at the one important off stat, and this is what counts, which make them a very good off unit. Other stats are ... interesting to read, but compared to attack force per time kinda irrelevant. Especially for the main hammer, like I mentioned, for a secondary or tertiary hammer one can opt into EI for farming.


    By the way: You CANNOT make ANY conclusions without HDT. HDT is THE building for romans, if you train roman off, you ALWAYS have one. Calculating without one is useless. Also, calculating with level 0 units is nonsense, for the very same reason. You always upgrade your hammer to level 20.

  • First: I didn't check your numbers. Whether they're correct or not is irrelevant, because you're asking the wrong questions. It is completely irrelevant, whether EC are better than clubs in terms of any offensive point. You do not have the decision between EC and clubs. You have the decision between Imperian + EC + Ram vs. Club + TR + Ram.

    • Roman EC hammers (with that I mean Imperian + EC + Ram - this will count for analogue cases in the following aswell) are the second best hammers in the game, in terms of attack force per time. And attack force per time is the one single stat, that is relevant for hammers in most cases. You want to train hammers quickly, because unlike defense you can't put two hammers together to fight as one.
    • There may be an exception for WW hammers, their supply might be hard, so you might want to look at supply aswell, but wait, roman EC hammers excel at fighting strength per crop consume, being the best hammer in the game in this term.
    • That one does not build EC as defense unit should be crystal clear. I will not explain in depth why, it's just obvious, they suck at deff. But so do most offensive units. EC just don't suck completely as def, so some people build them as def, whyever.
    • You also don't really want to farm with horses if there are so many farm spikers around, like I heared it in com to be the case. One could opt into training EI in a support village for farming only, but that's another topic. So their carry capacity doesn't matter that much. Maybe a bit, if one is taking the risk of being spiked, but farming with Imps should be better there. Can't speak from too much experience here though, I always opted into either a support village with farm-EI or into a tertiary off with EI (EI's attack force per time is only a few percent below EC's, so it felt okay-ish to do so for a tertiary).
    • Troop speed from off units is mostly irrelevant, you usually send your rams with them. Maybe if you want to bash clubs or a clubhammer you send EC only, but that's ... rare. But yes, that point is somewhat valid, EC's speed is bad.
    • Resource costs don't matter too much aswell, EC off costs roughly 8% more than an EI off, but that's only around 2k resources per hour. You will be able to afford this anyway, also your hammer's supply will quickly cost way more than it's production anyway.

    EC hammers excel at the one important off stat, and this is what counts, which make them a very good off unit. Other stats are ... interesting to read, but compared to attack force per time kinda irrelevant. Especially for the main hammer, like I mentioned, for a secondary or tertiary hammer one can opt into EI for farming.


    By the way: You CANNOT make ANY conclusions without HDT. HDT is THE building for romans, if you train roman off, you ALWAYS have one. Calculating without one is useless. Also, calculating with level 0 units is nonsense, for the very same reason. You always upgrade your hammer to level 20.

    Great post. Cover it all. Except maybe that EIs makes the best Ghost Hammer in the game. This balance between movement speed and atk/time is great.

    "Remember upon the conduct of each depends the fate of all." ― Alexander the Great

    The post was edited 1 time, last by Scorox ().

  • If you check the wiki 3 EI.s will get +45 ATK +45 DEF from the weapon, meanwhile 2 EC-s will get +40/+40 that is what I meant as a horde bonus. That might seem insignificant but quickly piles up.

    Look at it this way. 27/24, 36/32, 45/40 are all 1.125, meaning EI-s get 12.5% more increase from hero weapon. This is even more true during the early game when Romans dont have enough resources to raise the Horse Drinking Pool to max level.

    Aha, I thought you meant the "Size Bonus" when writing "Horde Bonus". My bad.

    But still, even when accounting for the Hero Weapon ECs have about 12% larger Atk/time than EIs. So even the extra buff from Hero Weapon EIs gets compared to ECs do not help them to get better than ECs in terms of atk/time.

    "Remember upon the conduct of each depends the fate of all." ― Alexander the Great

    • First: I didn't check your numbers. Whether they're correct or not is irrelevant, because you're asking the wrong questions. It is completely irrelevant, whether EC are better than clubs in terms of any offensive point. You do not have the decision between EC and clubs. You have the decision between Imperian + EC + Ram vs. Club + TR + Ram.
    • You should always by all means check the numbers. In every game(and especially in Travian) numbers are the key to greater understanding and victory.
    • Roman EC hammers (with that I mean Imperian + EC + Ram - this will count for analogue cases in the following aswell) are the second best hammers in the game, in terms of attack force per time. And attack force per time is the one single stat, that is relevant for hammers in most cases. You want to train hammers quickly, because unlike defense you can't put two hammers together to fight as one.

    Correct, attack per time is important but only as long as you are able to keep producing EC-s 24/7. The more downtime you have the worse they are. If you look at EC-s the main problem is not just the fact they are more expensive. It is the fact that they dont balance out the resources to allow you to keep barracks and stable producing 24/7. (Unless you are NPC-ing, but gold only feature should not have influence on macro gameplan)

    That one does not build EC as defense unit should be crystal clear. I will not explain in depth why, it's just obvious, they suck at deff. But so do most offensive units. EC just don't suck completely as def, so some people build them as def, whyever.

    Also correct, however I commented on the in game description of them, not weather or not they should be used in def(of course they should never be used in def). They are described as:

    The Equites Caesaris are the heavy cavalry of the Romans. Well-armored and heavily armed, they are however slower than the Imperatoris and can only carry few resources.

    This is more of a remark on how developers see them, which is in my opinion incorrect.

    Resource costs don't matter too much aswell, EC off costs roughly 8% more than an EI off, but that's only around 2k resources per hour. You will be able to afford this anyway, also your hammer's supply will quickly cost way more than it's production anyway.

    Again, as I said above the cost itself is not the problem it is the way that cost is combined with other units. EC-s are Iron-Clay heavy. If you are building them you are also building imperians which are also Iron heavy in terms of cost. So you will have little to no Iron, medium amount clay and no wood. Again as long as you are NPC-ing this is not a problem, but for a F2P player it is much more appealing to have EI-s which compliment Imperians better in terms of cost.

    You also don't really want to farm with horses if there are so many farm spikers around, like I heared it in com to be the case. One could opt into training EI in a support village for farming only, but that's another topic. So their carry capacity doesn't matter that much. Maybe a bit, if one is taking the risk of being spiked, but farming with Imps should be better there. Can't speak from too much experience here though, I always opted into either a support village with farm-EI or into a tertiary off with EI (EI's attack force per time is only a few percent below EC's, so it felt okay-ish to do so for a tertiary).

    Yeah however for a troop used primarily for offense it is disgusting to know that almost every single defensive troop in the game is able to outcarry them. Also if there are spikers around it does not matter weather you are using horses or infantry. Nobody will ever use EC-s for any form of farming. The point was made to showcase how counterintuitive and paradoxal the unit is.

    By the way: You CANNOT make ANY conclusions without HDT. HDT is THE building for romans, if you train roman off, you ALWAYS have one. Calculating without one is useless. Also, calculating with level 0 units is nonsense, for the very same reason. You always upgrade your hammer to level 20.

    If you had read the post you would have seen I did not calculate, I simply took the information from relevant site. However all of the other things apart from 1 were in fact made with Horse Drinking Pool in mind. And even then EC-s are awful. Before you spend X thousand resources on maxing a Horse Drinking Pool they are even worse. That is why I said you should always check the numbers.

  • Another thing to consider is that a EC + Imp army make maximum use of Bandages. So if you are a heavy gold spender and Duke/King .. EC + Imp may be a viable option for continuous attacks... even if your activity in terms of raiding is not good. One should have in mind that a poor raider usually reach the maximum upkeep they can afford rather quickly as Teuton .. so for none-farmers and non-King/Duke Romans are a venue for reaching a rather strong OFF army.

    "Remember upon the conduct of each depends the fate of all." ― Alexander the Great

    The post was edited 1 time, last by Scorox ().

  • Better in what way? What I meant there was just that the "Horde/Size Bonus" does not have anything to do with the number of attack units. Hence the choice of 3 EI vs. 2 EC is not affected by that. I think the most useful way to this about the EI vs. EC comparison is this:

    EI's are better in: Atk/Cost (including crop upkeep), More suitable for Ghost hammers due to their speed, Better at farming due to speed and capacity.

    EC's are better in: Atk/Production time ... and having #1 Atk/Production time in the game makes them a really Great OFF unit.

    EI weapon tier 3 as example is 3x15 attack and deff which equal +45 and EC is 2x20 attack and deff which is +40 for the same amount of crop

  • Ok lets compare these 2 units and see what you are getting @Aillas


    EI-(157.1ATK+15ATK)/44MIN=3.911ATK/MIN

    EC-(232.4ATK+20ATK)/58MIN=4.351 ATK/MIN

    Total difference is 3.911/4.351=0.89 for a grand total of dum dum dum 11% faster ATK/MIN.


    So for 11% faster ATK/MIN you are:


    1. Paying 36% more in total resources. (790/1220=0.64)

    1.1. Meaning unless you are NPC-ing you cant queue IMPS effectivly meaning you ARE losing ATK/MIN because your IMPs wont be able to go 24/7. After 14.43 hours if I am correct(I did it in a hurry will go double check later).

    2. Getting 2.2% less ATK/Crop if equiping sword.

    3. 29% less speed.

    4. 54% less carrying capacity.


    You cant lie math. Math and strategy win the game. ;3

  • Almost all you said is wrong or irrelevant. ^^

    Quote

    1. Paying 36% more in total resources. (790/1220=0.64)

    1.1. Meaning unless you are NPC-ing you cant queue IMPS effectivly meaning you ARE losing ATK/MIN because your IMPs wont be able to go 24/7. After 14.43 hours if I am correct(I did it in a hurry will go double check later).

    2. Getting 2.2% less ATK/Crop if equiping sword.

    3. 29% less speed.

    4. 54% less carrying capacity.

    1. You arent paying 36% more for the same time. The difference is far lower than that. You'll pay 4,4% more only.
    1.1. Market is here for you, since gauls and germans are selling iron against wood.

    2. Less than what ? The 11% becomes 8.8% ? And I guess you mean ATK/Time and not ATK/Crop.

    3. Wrong. EC aren't 29% less speed. 21,5% less speed is correct.

    4. Wrong for the same reason. 30% less carrying capacity is correct.

  • there is a thing that you should take into account not all villages are 4446 and the oasis bonus are diferent

  • That's what is called balance. Different styles favour different attributes and one is good with ECs, another is good with EIs.

    1. As people already said, this is incorrect: off/cost: EIs offer 8% cheaper off-points.

    3. IMO speed and carrying capacity aren't as important for a hammer—since we're talking about non-stop.
    BTW you can use the linked tool to get accurate results

  • Answers in red:

    • First: I didn't check your numbers. Whether they're correct or not is irrelevant, because you're asking the wrong questions. It is completely irrelevant, whether EC are better than clubs in terms of any offensive point. You do not have the decision between EC and clubs. You have the decision between Imperian + EC + Ram vs. Club + TR + Ram.
    • You should always by all means check the numbers. In every game(and especially in Travian) numbers are the key to greater understanding and victory.
    • Why should I check numbers, that are irrelevant anyway?
    • Roman EC hammers (with that I mean Imperian + EC + Ram - this will count for analogue cases in the following aswell) are the second best hammers in the game, in terms of attack force per time. And attack force per time is the one single stat, that is relevant for hammers in most cases. You want to train hammers quickly, because unlike defense you can't put two hammers together to fight as one.

    Correct, attack per time is important but only as long as you are able to keep producing EC-s 24/7. The more downtime you have the worse they are. If you look at EC-s the main problem is not just the fact they are more expensive. It is the fact that they dont balance out the resources to allow you to keep barracks and stable producing 24/7. (Unless you are NPC-ing, but gold only feature should not have influence on macro gameplan)

    You ARE training 24/7. At least in the main hammer. If you aren't able to do so, you should consider farming or switching to def. If the supply is too huge, go farming more aggressively. Also, like others pointed out, the actual res / time cost (which is the "relevant" point in this regard) is just a few percent off. You wouldn't be able to produce many more EI either. And since you produced for a long time EC instead of EI, you have the bigger hammer now, if you train EC. And still, you're supposed to train 24/7 with 17/22/27% helmet, if you don't at least in your main hammer, you're doing stuff horribly wrong.

    That one does not build EC as defense unit should be crystal clear. I will not explain in depth why, it's just obvious, they suck at deff. But so do most offensive units. EC just don't suck completely as def, so some people build them as def, whyever.
  • I will get on board and suggest EC might need a slight def boost, but it's not a big issue.


    EI is a very cool unit for sure, and speed is perhaps a little too underrated by many here.

    Having said that for the best possible roman EGH you would build with ECs.

    Far more affordable as a duke or king though, as going pure EC from early is fairly prohibitive and the crop saving only chip in at level 20 HDT which makes it a tougher early to mid-game for sure.


    If something has the best possible outcome in one important field (attack per time) it is not under-powered - despite the tougher resource cost.


    If you like to farm and attack more EI is far better (personal flavour of course) :)

    Professional Irritant & Memer [BM]TM