[Discussion] Relocation Overhaul – Menhir Era 2.0

  • Why is there not even a mention that there is a discussion about this topic in any other forum (german for example)?

    Why cant there be an information post so more people from other forums (not english) will also find this thread?



    Changes sound promising but as other´s have stated... more strict rules for menhir should take place.

    Max. 3 Menhir´s per Player in one world.

    Less "spam" menhirs at the start, a King should not have the power to teleport 30 players on day 1 / 2

    Also why do we need the menhir function at all after ~4 weeks of a server?


    Greets,

    Sweecz

  • 1. Area around the World Wonders

    In the 5x round so far I'm quite happy with the way the wonders look in terms of this rule.

    The area for no relocation could even stand to be bit bigger by another 2-5 tiles than it is since the area directly around the wonder tends to be bare of oasis already meaning kingdoms don't want to relocate there in the first place and the wonder itself does take substantial chunk of the blocked area as well.

    Alternatively more oasis could be added under the wonder to make it more valuable now that you can't just dump an entire team there day 1?

  • Why is there not even a mention that there is a discussion about this topic in any other forum (german for example)?

    2 reasons: Because we will start the same discussion in the German forum section soon. The feature concept is already translated. And because the COM and RU community was affected by guerilla attacks first and we've already discussed with them several solutions. This is the follow up discussion on this topic with them.



    Please don't complicate the game. Please keep it simple.

    Yes, that is what we want, too. That is one of the reasons why we don't want to implement too many unnecessary restrictions. Only the most needed ones. What would help with keeping it simple in your opinion?



    In the 5x round so far I'm quite happy with the way the wonders look in terms of this rule.

    The area for no relocation could even stand to be bit bigger by another 2-5 tiles than it is since the area directly around the wonder tends to be bare of oasis already meaning kingdoms don't want to relocate there in the first place and the wonder itself does take substantial chunk of the blocked area as well.

    Alternatively more oasis could be added under the wonder to make it more valuable now that you can't just dump an entire team there day 1?

    Thank you for sharing your feedback! Keep in mind that the special rules only apply on 5x though.


    We don't want to make this area more valuable in adding more oases there. It's already an advantage if you have experienced players within your kingdom who know how to settle there quickly. We don't want to unbalance it any further.


    Interesting that you say the area could be even bigger :/ @all: any opinions about this?

    so any player joining a server would have 6 weeks to find a kingdom

    on a standard round you mean? Would this really be a fix or would it just shift everything to week 5 and week 6? I know where you all coming from with the time limit. Breaking it down to a specific point in the game though makes it difficult.


    Would the better solution be to say until a player trained X troops like some of you mentioned? Or would that be a disadvantage against players who lost their starting team through no fault of one's own?

    Community Communications Manager

  • on a standard round you mean? Would this really be a fix or would it just shift everything to week 5 and week 6? I know where you all coming from with the time limit. Breaking it down to a specific point in the game though makes it difficult.


    Would the better solution be to say until a player trained X troops like some of you mentioned? Or would that be a disadvantage against players who lost their starting team through no fault of one's own?

    yes on a normal speed server, the timescale would be less effect for abuse the older the server becomes, 6 weeks at start can be quite a big impact, but 6 weeks after 60 days would leave a lot less room for abuse as the targetted player/kingdom would be better equipped to counter any tactics that may be attempted.


    but 6 weeks (or even less) would still allow the menhir feature to be used as intended for anyone starting a server, even if starting late to find and play with their desired kingdom. once the timescale had elapsed the player would revert back to the old system and have to settle into the kingdom and maybe destroy/lose/ignore their spawn village depending on how close it is to their future villages.

  • 6 weeks is way too much. No sane player would still be at a single village after 40 days.

    I think tying mehnir availability to beginner protection is the way to go. From what I understand mehnir/relocation was meant to give chance to players who spawned to an inactive king or hostile area. A week is enough to see if your neighbours turn grey, if your king's pop is staying the same and if a stronger/premade kingdom is settling right beside you.

  • I think tying mehnir availability to beginner protection is the way to go.

    Beginner protection isn't long enough, lot of beginners are still on the first village after exiting their beginner protection (the day 1-2 fast settling is popular among veterans but not readily accessible to new players), You might still be with one village well into the 300-400 pop range, maybe even a a city for some beginners who figure city would be a cool starting move. If a limit were to come account age or troops built is much better as it prevents the abuse without hurting new players at all.

  • I think the area covered around the WW has to be.....in my opinion huge.....10x10, maybe even 12x12 minimum....otherwise it doesnt accomplish what your intending.......if its 5x5 people will just settle right next to it and expand towards the WW anyway.


    Sort of like how big the grey area is in Legends

  • Like now on x5? jumping around with 15k clubs farm instant without long ways of runnung? no chance of protection...


    Hell thats rly fun

    Bind it to BP... if someone dont find a Kingdom after that he is far enough to settle there...

  • Menhir function works perfectly fine as it is.



    Problem is that players who are under 200 population (begginer protection) can send reinforcment to players who are not in protection, which makes exploit situation in start of the game. Disable sending reinforcment from players in protection to players out of protection.

    Maybe it would be better to set begginers protection 7 days for ALL no matter population and statisctics. Go hunt some spiders, let the noob try the game before he delets in start (how many 1000 of inactives we got on com worlds is beyond my mouse click).

    Im happy with the system as it is. Im also fine with the "myst" system. Gives more balance to the game and some freshness. So all good, keep the good work!


    Oh almost forgot!
    Governor have more rights then Kings and specialy more then Dukes! How so? Look this:
    Governor has every right to go menhir himself where ever he wants and how many times he wants as long as he is not transfering to Kingdom that his current Kingdom has Confederation with.

    So I play as a King and I invite via menhir a player to be my governor. Player goes inactive and keeps that slot for settling for a month or so. Dissaster. And King cant do anything about that. How about implementing some kick out system for super inactive menhired governors?

    Who of you seen player Food making 3k clubs in first week and menhiring arround biggest Kingdoms, sieging every player inside, completely demolishing their game. Mayn Kings and player quit to Food's gameplay. 3k clubs in first week, 6 in 2nd week, attacking 1,2,3 fields aways members of Kingdom. King has like 500 clubs he can only dream about catapults. SO very big problem yes yes yes

  • "Interesting that you say the area could be even bigger :/ @all: any opinions about this?"

    i think that the aera without relocation could be bigger.
    let arrive in WW aera only those who know how to do others villages.

  • So I play as a King and I invite via menhir a player to be my governor. Player goes inactive and keeps that slot for settling for a month or so. Dissaster.

    A king can actually cancel a menhir invitation. But only by clicking on the menhir on the map, not in the embassy.


    But with the Reservation feature mentioned in the concept, this wouldn't work anymore if a player actively reserved the relocation. This behavior excludes inactives and was ment to prevent a player from being blocked by getting constant farm list entries.


    To emphasize why we want to help players that have a hard time finding a kingdom, I want to highlight this shared player experience. Joining a kingdom appears impossible


    Unfortunately, this happens more than you'd think. That is why we are so cautious about limitations.

    Community Communications Manager

  • The map is always crowded, and menhir make it even worse. I suggest to try the opposite, to start with a ring shape map, let us say between 50 and 69, which is do not contain WWs, then players rush to the central area, which is more rich in oases, and contain WWs, let us name this version: "Resource Rush"

  • The map is always crowded, and menhir make it even worse. I suggest to try the opposite, to start with a ring shape map, let us say between 50 and 69, which is do not contain WWs, then players rush to the central area, which is more rich in oases, and contain WWs, let us name this version: "Resource Rush"

    Thats sounds great! Menhir is used now more from "pro" players than newbies that want to find a proper kingdom. A simply 2-3 times relocation is more than enough to find a proper kingdom to play. As a matter of fact the menhir now cripples the possibility for random kingdoms to rise and benefits huge the premades team that are more "closed" to newbies.


    Another solution would be to change things a lot by switching some of the mechanics of the game. For example you could do the wonders areas as starting places that people spawn .

    (wonders will server as pre-made kingdoms where the players can sell their treasuries). In this area you could only have your first village and even have permanent beginner protection up until you join a players kingdom. Ofc that means that you dont have wonders anymore but hey the treasuries ranking is more than enough to win a server.

  • Cold Steel thank you for sharing your idea. That idea would go beyond the scope of the original topic of the discussion and deserves an own discussion. That is why I copied the last 2 comments into this thread: Start with a ring shaped map


    Several of you suggested to set a time limit for the menhir usage. We've discussed them all. The most promising one was the suggestion to bind the menhir feature to the avatar age. That means starting to count when the player is joining a game round and then, after time X, disabling the feature for this player.


    As you know, we have as less limitations as possible in Travian Kingdoms to keep the game open for as many strategies and game styles as possible. On the other hand, limitations can create new problems or so many edge cases, that, at the end, the exceptions are becoming the new norm. Not just explaining, but also playing under these conditions, is hard.


    We've also discussed the general limit to disable the menhir feature at the same time the WWs are opening up. The consequence would be, again, to have more rules. But also, the original purpose of adjusting the menhir feature wouldn't be met.


    The guerilla attacks are not just done against WWs, but also against important villages within a kingdom.


    "Interesting that you say the area could be even bigger @all: any opinions about this?"

    i think that the aera without relocation could be bigger.
    let arrive in WW aera only those who know how to do others villages.


    We've discussed the map size again. That area is currently already "spawn-free" area, meaning no new avatar will start there. But it would be too big of a chance now and prolong implementing these fixes. That is why we keep it in mind for later.


    Thank you all for your feedback! I am going to close this discussion within the next week.


    kind regards,


    B

    Community Communications Manager