Menhir exploit

  • Hello Travian team,

    Can you please look more seriously into the issue of constantly relocating your village to your advantage? This issue causes players to exploit menhirs and wreck havoc to the Sliver Kingdom on COM6.
    Understandably, it is out of our hands now, but please consider balancing the menhir feature as it now forces you to use it or be abused :)

    Kind regards,

    Heer Baksteen / Guarddog

  • This has been fixed for new servers but wont be changed for older ones.

    I would say partially fixed. But definitely better option not to be able to attack after being menhired.

    I think that main problem is that it allows to jump later, when you can have big armies. In first 30 days you cant have such big army (and if there were no menhirs for accounts older then 30 days... it would be better. Combined with 2.0)

  • Well, yesterday, there was topic about this with more than 30 replays including statements from Hobbit, Taz and almost all our leaders. For some reason, moderators deleted this topic. So I won't write it all again. But my opinion, and some others'll agree, is this. Menhirs were tested on test servers. Our leaders tested them and wrote a lot of comments and warnings, that this situation can occur. Devs decided to not change menhirs and implement them in game as they were on tests. So, everyone could test menhirs on tests servers, everyone could read those warnings and prepare for this situation. The fact, that almost nobody did it and almost noone knew about this way of menhirs usage is just unpreparedness. And words like " we don't use them like that because it's abusing and not fair" are all lies in my eyes. Just trying to cover the unpreparedness. On the other way, if someone knew about this system and decided to not use it, it's just his fault, not ours. Those was legal game mechanic like the others in game, tested on test servers and implemented in game by devs. We can longly argue, if gauls village full of traps is also abusing the game mechanic. Our usage of menhirs is the same case. In my eyes, we are not abusers, our leaders just discovered new opportunity, which game offered. I understand that you are angy and frustrated, but i don't think, its our guilt. We just took the opportunity. I, and many others, dont like those pre2.0 Era menhirs, the way they work and I'm really looking forward to 2.0 Era and menhirs rework. Moreover many of us tried to prevent this situation. So this is my oppinion, and maybe some others. Is it enough?
    And to be honest, all those false accusations that we are cheaters, abusers and i don't know what else, were really sad and insulting. Now, we have really bad name in Kingdoms comunity and it'll take time to clear it. And that all just because ego of few feople was bigger, than their ability to admit defeat.

  • No worries, Im not gonna call anyone anything :D Not that much into it.

    So then from what i get you are gonna keep it up in com6?

    Now, lets put aside What happened on com6.

    One thing does keep bugging me. - You are so mad about defing greys and being so on one side about it,

    And then again you pull this stuff(jumping? whatever its called), that you admit is wrong..

    Smells like double standarts here. This does not say anything good about you.
    Then spiking is also good when you do it? Or how does it work.

    And BOO to the one that took down that forum post!!! Forum is here as a platform for communication. Or am i wrong?
    Its a shame that it was taken down before situation is resolved.

  • To be honest, i'm not in leading group and I'm not a jumper, so i don't have these informations. Nevertheless if i have them, I'll definetly not write them here :D
    Well, destroing Rolands villages was not just because spiking. The insults from his side were reason too. But i'm not authorizet to talk here about this thing, questions about this incident are rather for Hobbit.
    As guys wrote yesterday, plan with jumpers was like pocket plan. We didn't want to use it unless it was necessary. Roland and his spiking were not the reasons to use it. The main reason was that right after the start of server, we were alone against rest of the server. And we were forced to try everything to survive. When you are in really bad situation, but you have a secret weapon, are you bad one, when you use that weapon to save yourself? Moreover, we are not saying jumping is good or bad. We simply don't like the way it works, but it's ingame mechanic like every other and everyone can use it. We tryed to change it before this server, devs decided to implement it as it was on test, so here it is. I also don't like gauls traps, I think, its huge advantage in fist weeks, but you know, game mechanic... And as i wrote earlier, spiking is also legal game mechanic. But it's in game for years and during that time, most of players agreed its not fair. If we 'll spike, we'll be same bad as you. As i know, menhirs era 1.0 was just on few servers, its new thing. Right now and right here we are talking about if it's fair or not. We all know, that this mechanic is at least controversial and 'll be better to revork it. And this case is maybe the confirmation, that rework 'll remove one controversion think from this game.

  • I think it is better to add an amendment to the menhir feature

    accounts over 30 days old are not allowed to use this feature

    In case there are players who enter the server after 30 days and need to relocate so they can relocate easily

  • Hello everyone,

    Let's leave out the personal attacks and arguments and move forward with some constructive feedback for the game designers.
    As Luthien already mentioned, the first steps towards improving this behavior have been implemented and on newly starting game worlds there are timed restrictions which prevent attacking after relocation.

    As far as I understand your opinion is that there should be more restrictions implemented to the Menhir system, is that correct? Would it be possible for you guys to come up with some ideas?
    I already saw the post saying that avatars older than X days shouldn't be able to use this feature at all and noted it down. :)

    Best regards

  • As one of jumpers, i saw first hand how destructive that can be. Change to Menhir era 2.0 is good, but i think not enough.

    As told before, avatars older X days (30 should be fine) can be excluded. Or maybe limit number of menhirs per player (10 maybe? That would allow enough chances on start, but later you cant jump so much). But i believe one of those will be enough, primary account age.

  • I think there should be a significant cooldown on Menhirs.......14 days possibly.

    The main reason people use Menhirs is; in the beginning of the game to get into the kingdom and/or closer to their target cropper. or for new players just to get into a kingdom.

    Putting a long cooldown on Menhirs essentially nullifies the other reason that people Menhir...which is to exploit

    Additionally the Menhir function should end after a certain amount of time.....60 days possibly.......the only people using Menhirs that late into the server would be exploiters, very few new players join a server this late.

    As a note some people have mentioned cutting off Menhirs at 30 days.....but as a player....I have joined a server 1 month in......AND some times Travian still lists a 30 day old server as "New" 60 days would be good enough

  • As a note some people have mentioned cutting off Menhirs at 30 days.....but as a player....I have joined a server 1 month in......AND some times Travian still lists a 30 day old server as "New" 60 days would be good enough

    I believe that most of those, who mentioned cutting it at 30 days, meaned 30 days age of account - not of server (so if you join at day 30 of server, you can get menhir until day 60, when you are 30 days on server)

  • Dear Georgi,

    Menhir'ing really changed the game drastically since it was implemented. That affects cheating, but also the variability between servers. Everyone can now stack up within 24 hours and within that time frame all newly started servers look the same. Clustering should be something that must be achieved, not granted from the start. People need to be able to fight with the resources given, and adapt to the environment instead of creating safe-zones instantly.

    To summarize how Menhiring in total affects the whole aspect of the game, it affects:
    * Clustering from the start, making it a game of numbers.
    * Multis easily making multiple accounts (def accounts, scout accounts but now also used for 200+ poping and moving the resources in an instant). People even stopped hiding the fact that they have a multi, because its so common now a days.

    * Instant settling, it used to be that you had to perform for a few days really hard in order to settle quickly. Now people simply menhir next to a 15c, and settle within 18 hours. People finish the quests from the resource fields, menhir and recover the resources.

    * Portal 'bad guys' (people with bad intentions) to a foe in an instant. We've 'abused' this a lot in the past, and it is VERY effective.

    Menhiring is an incredible powerful tool, especially in the wrong hands. And from what I understood when it was implemented was to support new players to find a decent kingdom. So 'nerf' its power so it doesn't affect the idea of helping new players, but makes it not interesting for veterans.

    I would suggest the following:
    * Include a travelling/cooldown period where a player can not play while the menhir is in progress. If you would like to move 30 squares, you will have your account inactivated for 10 hours (30 / 3 (settler speed)). This way "real" players will have to think twice whether or not it is worth it to move to a different location.

    * Do not recover resources spent on resource fields. This way people cant abuse the returned resources to 1. quick settle, 2. raid their multis for their own purpose (Son&Sponge on com2). This might be harsh, but then again, menhir'ing should be a last resort solution, not the biggest bonus in the game.

    * Lower the resources recovered from destroyed buildings. I like how it speeds up the start of the game, but combined with the resi to 5 -> 10 quest it stimulates cheating.

    * Menhir'ing once per server is enough. By that time a new server has already been started for a fresh start :-)

    * Limit menhir to once per kingdom per day.

    * Limit menhir to be possible after 7 days (beginners protection). <- Players who need menhir'ing are players who are being farmed/new and want to have a fresh start or a nicer community. The need of moving starts after 7 days into the server.

    Well that's about it for menhir'ing. I can start another topic about Gold and the improvements I see there without affecting the profitability of the game, but I've seen many threats about that already :-)


  • Travel time is not okay. If 2 players select same spawn direction (say +/+) but end up at 1|30 and 30|1 then that is a bit messed up to force such a long travel time just to play together.

    You can't both have only after 7 days AND not recover resources spent. Either/or is fine but can't have both as that would essentially force someone to rush pop buildings with robber income.

    Reduce resources from destroyed buildings is not the issue here, its the quest rewards. If you would change the small celebration reward to a refund of some resources instead of 500cp then you would fix the fast settle tactic. If you want it to counter people destroying buildings to get res to top off their warehouses to boost other players/accounts then yeah sorta a solution but do we really want to make such a hefty game change just to counter this situation?

    Once per server and one per kingdom per day are both not enough. Some players want to jump cause they want to know what their team is doing and want to find the right team for them. Some kings want to invite everyone asap and should be able to do so.

  • I still think putting a long cooldown is the best option for limiting the jumper exploiters of Menhirs......but that doesnt nullify Plumpkins point of multi's/Menhir farms (Son&Sponge).

    I think an option would be; when you start a server you get 7 days of BP attached to your account.......which will be removed when you reach 200 pop.....IF you then fall below 200 pop you will return to BP for whatever BP time is left on your account.

    Point is .....seems people are now creating multis just to gather their multis around them......raise their pop to 200, Menhir close to themselves (which drops them below 200 most people just assume that that village is in BP)....and then raid the resources left in the heroes inventory.

    putting a new account back into BP once it falls below 200 pop and as long as it has BP time still left on its account......will certainly stem the tide of that cheat.

  • That will just postpone the problem to 7 days into the server.

    Maybe have a 2nd storage that is JUST relocation goods. This storage cannot be raided and cannot be traded from. The only use for this storage is rebuilding of fields, not even buildings.

  • Plumpkin Great post! This really limits what people can do and would also put people in a more fight to survive idea.

    Pinkguy#NL Yeah I agree with that, as I wrote myself the game needs a secondary warehouse, but it's a good add that it can only be used to upgrading fields, even then the game can still give you the same goods as before, but now it cannot get raided.
    Something I would like to see them do is kinda similar to Netflix where you simply cannot play the game if you have a VPN. I know you can bypass that, but it could help against most of the cheaters

  • I'm just going to add a couple of ideas that I have for how you could potentially fix menhiring from being abused they way it currently is.

    1: Make it so that all troops that are in your village gets removed entirely, or gets removed from the village but put into unit queue so that they will get built over time. Example: You have 500 clubs when you menhir. After menhiring you have 500 clubs in queue in your barracks. This also includes the 12 hour attack ban currently in the game. Hero would survive this though.

    2: Make it so that instead of only getting resource packs when menhiring, you instead get averaged resource field upgrades equal to the total amount of resources you would have gotten back -1 level on average. You get resources back from that 1 level per resource instead of all of them. Example: You menhir whilst having all resources level 5 and arrive with all resources level 4 with most of the resources needed to get level 5 in your heros inventory.

    3: Make menhirs only possible once per day per player.

    This makes speed settling as difficult as it used to be before menhiring was a thing, it makes menhiring an attack force into enemy territory impossible since they would just be menhiring a village with an insanely large queue, and it doesn't really inhibit newer players since they would just have to rebuild a single level of fields to get back on track. They would be low on troops for a bit, but most likely they wouldn't have been building anything in their barracks at the time anyways, so it shouldn't set them back by much. So in other words, there is no real side effects for the group that this feature is aimed towards, whilst also inhibiting the worst abuse that this feature can produce by the experienced players trying to further their game.


    You're reading this. Think about it.

  • Looks like people are still angry. And they have a right to be. Leaving exploits in an update is very bad from devs. Now I know this feature is used both to gather friends but even with restrictions, cool downs and all that there is still the core option to just let the village cool down in peace and then turn it into a bully nest later. This was implimented to discurage this behavior but we all know the general state of the game: Most major kingdoms don't care about rules, delays and intended use of features. They will do anything anytime to 'win'. This is the cancer that plagues this game. So as long as these individuals/kingdoms don't conform/reform, no amount of forum posts, personal attacks and text walls will save the game. If it's broken, don't use it :/