Offense buff

  • Hey :S

    While playing this game year by year, I've always felt defenders have so much advantage. But as T5 keeps changing, defense side is coming insane. Some reasons:
    1) As we got used to it, defense can be grouped, attack cannot. It's fine, ancient travian feature.
    2) As T5 were introduced, many villages got covered with a kingdom's influence, so they enjoyed extra defense by giving visual notification of attacks to the kingdom.
    3) Menhirs: Oh dear, no village outside of borders. Every player is stacked into a kingdom and it feels like a simulation of world war 1. Everyone is safe, very risky to make an attack, so you won't commit, save army for 80-90 days and then press the button. ;(


    The imbalance of defense and offense play style can be also seen on the distribution of tribes. The majority of players pick gauls and only a small percentage goes for teutons.

    Therefore, I'd like to make some suggestions to rebalance the game and make it more fun:

    1) Gauls: I think they are fine, although they could get better offense values on cavalry, changing Haeds to 150/60/155 from 140/60/165. I feel it's a shame that gaul offense armies are built up from light TT units.
    2) Teutons. I like the idea how the clubs can counter the phalanx spams, but it's still not enough. Clubs will hardly ever use their loot advantage, since it takes so much time to reach an opponent village, so they get defended. I don't really see teuton players abusing the loot efficiency of clubs, they are only made for spamming attack points quickly. Thus, I would change clubs' attack speed to 8, increase their attack damage from 40 to 43 and I would increase the damage of axefighters to 65 as well. TKs are nearly fine, but they are nearly as slow as clubs, they would also need a buff of +2 fields/hr.
    3) Romans. It's so complicated. I hardly ever see players actually playing around legionnaries. Also, I often notice the majority of the players have the same amount of cavalry as infantry, which is so funny. No one really cares about imperians, they are left behind - not good for farming or producing damage quickly. Imperians look so strong, but in reality their training time makes them so useless. I would definitely push towards a direction where the hero helmets made for barracks (e.g. helmet of warrior) are not completely ignored by roman players, so they could have an option which offense side they want to push: infantry or cavalry. Thus, I would decrease the training time in roman barracks by 15% overall. Training time would be still slow, but more acceptable and actually fun to play with.

    What do you think? Do the troops need a rebalance with the menhir era?

  • PS

    Forgot to mention, not only the menhirs but vacation mode hurts attackers so badly. Most of the time I saw players using vacation strategically, halving the number of possible targets attackers can fake, so the defenders can group defense with greater success.

  • You got me at "I often notice the majority of the players have the same amount of cavalry as infantry, which is so funny. No one really cares about imperians"

    between other things you said ?(


    Like you said they simply train slowly, and that's not random, there's a reason... All tribes have advantages and disadvantages but all the suggestions you make regarding units and stats = total balance break, not "re-balance".

  • I don't think it's breaking the balance at all, since there's no balance. Romans and gauls are massively behind teutons in offense points, that 15% off on barracks would keep this disadvantage of romans, but it wouldn't be that super heavy. The game needs these changes, because these numbers might be okay in T4, but T5 is so much different, defenders got too much buffs with influence, menhirs and vacations.

  • Again, I'll elaborate this a bit:

    Gaul Key points

    • Excellent for beginners: Easily the strongest early to mid game of all tribes. Trapper + the balanced and easy to spam Phalanx is OP. Also Phalanx + Swords ratio is almost perfect, grab yourself a wood oasis and you're good to go cleaning those hideouts and staying home strong in the 1st week, after that go Swords + TT and the ratio is the same. Well suited for beginners indeed.
    • Strong defense: Not the most crop efficient but the defense/time is indeed THE strongest. Phalanx ftw !
    • Fast cavalry: Period. Fast, not the most powerful, but the fastest ! Druids are Praets on horses, Haeduans are Legos on horses, TTs are best grey raiding unit in the game.

    Roman Key points

    Teuton Key points

    • Great for active players: What this means is: you don't leave your army home never ! Keep them raiding, you'll run into negative sooner than the other tribes.
    • Suits offensive play: Of course it does, but don't underestimate the Spear + Paladin combo. Spears are Praets counterpart so teutons also excel at defense ! Talking about weak Clubs ? Give them something to drink. 20% Off bonus from hero * 20% from Brewery doesn't seem weak to me, why would you want to boost this even further ? Because Spears and Phalanx train quickly ? B*** please...
    • Cheap troops: Indeed, cheap cheap and cheap. But oh boy are they slow ? Are they frail ? Are they crop efficient ? But do they give you the best attack/time ? They do ! Do Spears give you 2nd best defense/time ? Being even more def/cost efficient than Paladins ? They do !


    The game is balanced. If you don't know the tribes you indeed think that it isn't. But if WWs would be built to lvl 100 without being knocked down a single level then and only then the game would need a re-balance. But show me a server where 1 kingdom plays full defense and stack the WW with all they have to see it through lvl 100 without a scratch. Then I'll accept that defense is OP and Off needs a buff.

  • I agree with all of the Teuton ideas, with Menhir in place I struggle for motivation to play teuton because if I want to be a raider it's hard with the slow timing of clubs and the thought that if anyone is online they are notified and can kill my early raiding party (menhir is great for many aspects but it mainly helps a lot of new players and makes travian a little more sim city if you ask me). Too Gaul is such a great defender at any point of the game nobody even wants to attack them early game even with no troops due to traps making you lose 1/4 of your army regardless (I think this sucks) and to revert back to your thoughts on defences being grouped if they were to receive a small switcharoo and take a tiny defence and add it to offence I think this would be a good idea and playing with a nice big army which you sadly have to wait 90 days to use it would feel nicer knowing it's doing a bit more :D

  • Again, I'll elaborate this a bit:

    Gaul Key points

    • Excellent for beginners: Easily the strongest early to mid game of all tribes. Trapper + the balanced and easy to spam Phalanx is OP. Also Phalanx + Swords ratio is almost perfect, grab yourself a wood oasis and you're good to go cleaning those hideouts and staying home strong in the 1st week, after that go Swords + TT and the ratio is the same. Well suited for beginners indeed.
    • Strong defense: Not the most crop efficient but the defense/time is indeed THE strongest. Phalanx ftw !
    • Fast cavalry: Period. Fast, not the most powerful, but the fastest ! Druids are Praets on horses, Haeduans are Legos on horses, TTs are best grey raiding unit in the game.

    Roman Key points

    Teuton Key points

    • Great for active players: What this means is: you don't leave your army home never ! Keep them raiding, you'll run into negative sooner than the other tribes.
    • Suits offensive play: Of course it does, but don't underestimate the Spear + Paladin combo. Spears are Praets counterpart so teutons also excel at defense ! Talking about weak Clubs ? Give them something to drink. 20% Off bonus from hero * 20% from Brewery doesn't seem weak to me, why would you want to boost this even further ? Because Spears and Phalanx train quickly ? B*** please...
    • Cheap troops: Indeed, cheap cheap and cheap. But oh boy are they slow ? Are they frail ? Are they crop efficient ? But do they give you the best attack/time ? They do ! Do Spears give you 2nd best defense/time ? Being even more def/cost efficient than Paladins ? They do !


    The game is balanced. If you don't know the tribes you indeed think that it isn't. But if WWs would be built to lvl 100 without being knocked down a single level then and only then the game would need a re-balance. But show me a server where 1 kingdom plays full defense and stack the WW with all they have to see it through lvl 100 without a scratch. Then I'll accept that defense is OP and Off needs a buff.


    I don't really understand your points, you made a tribe-guide for newbies, but did not really mention how T5 is different from T4.

    The entire troop statistics were originally made for T4 and the game designers just copied everything to T5, not considering how the T5 features might affect the gameplay.

    I don't want to remove the special features of tribes, it's good as is. But right now, the game is heavily defense sided by 80% of T5 features. You cannot do much, only
    1) Attack greys
    2) Carefully attack afk players outside of borders
    3) After 9 months, press the button and your army was used.

    If you do otherwise and you attack a more serious target, you just lose your entire army and get no information back.

  • but back to OP:

    I do agree that the new-ish menhir system reduces teutons' early raiding powers a bit too much. There are less villages outside influence zones, and - more importantly - kingdoms are a lot more crowded early game. Kingdom members are closer to each other therefore def can arrive sooner while the distance between attackers and their targets remained mostly unaffected by menhirs.

    However instead of changing troop numbers I'd propose an alternative idea: buff fakes.

    Sending just 1 attack to an AFK player (if he is in an active kingdom) is just plain suicide right now since his fellow kingdoms members will defend him... with minimal losses because they can all gather their def at 1 village. The obvious solutions to this (as an attacker) is sending fakes, so people don't actually know who the real target is. This means they have to at least split their def, and even if they catch you, they'll have more serious losses.
    Now the problem with this is that fakes are simply too expensive in the first weeks of a server. Sending 10 units fakes on the first week on some targets can result in sacrificing 10% of your army before the fight even started. (Same goes for siege fakes mid game by the way, but that's another discussion). I feel like if sending 1 unit fakes were a viable strategy (defenders couldn't spot that they are fakes) early game that'd be enough of a buff to raider players.
    It could also offer an opportunity to differentiate between good and... even better :) def players by letting them check scout def reports on the kingdom, and figure out who the real target is.


    So yeah, my proposal: Do not display incoming fake attacks if there are no siege units in the attackers' army.
    I say if there are no siege units because I don't want to nerf spy-glasses (which I imagine is a not-insignificant silver shrink in the game) and rally point levelling too much.
    (An alternative solution could be the rally point would only give benefits at lvl10 and lvl20 (the +10 and +20 fake detection thingy), instead of the +1 unit every level, so 1 unit fakes were viable before level10 rally points are accessible to governors).


    [...] changing Haeds to 150/60/155 from 140/60/165. I feel it's a shame that gaul offense armies are built up from light TT units.

    I feel like there's a ballance here. TTs are a lot better at raiding, while haedus produce more atk points / time. I like that you can choose between the 2 depending on your aim. Also TTs can sometimes be used to snipe enemy off villages, which is a fun playstyle. IMO buffing haedus' attack points would just make them the go-to choice over TTs and actually reduce options / variety. Had disagree for this change from me


    Also the proposed buff to imperians (-15% training time) would just make romans the off tribe. ...and let's not forget that the HDT is the roman thing in this game. The close to 1:1 inf cavalry ratio can be attributed to that building alone, but I feel like that's kind of the romans' identity in this game. Teutons are early game club armies, Romans are late game cavalry (...and Gauls are a whole-game-round off joke :P)

    The post was edited 1 time, last by Xayira ().

  • I just stated advantages and disadvantages of the tribes that you seem not to understand very well yet you heavily criticized them. You also seem like you never played in an average kingdom with Off coordinators and you have little to no experience at all attacking. There are numerous styles of Offensive game play that don't require you to wait 9 months to attack so 1) is valid indeed, great source of resources that help in account growth and making the troops not just eat crop but actually feeding themselves. 2) really terrible experience you had so far since you probably never saw them "Christmas Red Lights" shinning all over the kingdom. 3) like I said, numerous ways to play offense so it makes no sense :)

    Looks like you want to play on a private server with "bots" set to Easy or "Sand-box" (AoE reference)... Because Off doesn't need a buff.

  • now that you've asked, yeah. attacking in the same second is indeed forbidden by game rules for some stupid reason actually

    There are rules like you had in Legends, and they go as follow:


    • < 3h: 1 wave.
    • 3-6h: 2 waves.
    • 6-12h: 3 waves.
    • > 12h: 4 waves.

    So you are, indeed allowed to send same second waves.

  • There are rules like you had in Legends, and they go as follow:


    • < 3h: 1 wave.
    • 3-6h: 2 waves.
    • 6-12h: 3 waves.
    • > 12h: 4 waves.

    So you are, indeed allowed to send same second waves.

    I am familiar with the game's rules, but thank you nonetheless :) You are allowed to send same second attacks... if your target is not too close to you. If he is you are not allowed by game rules. We shouldn't require def players to be active to be able to snipe waves after all

  • It can all be said that its fair and equal with offence and defence per stats in this new meta, however, when correlating to versing rally point cheaters, etc it is very unsatisfying building a giant army to then make multiple siege attacks all strategically coordinated with your kingdom only to see a couple of hours after the attack is launched that the treasures have already been moved from the target village and/or a giant wall is presented which all your hard work only does a minor dent towards. It makes long time players feel great about the time/labor they put into an account only to see some cheaters ruined their game. That's just my view I have learnt recently.

  • I feel that it would be nice to have, and yes, cheaters from recent experience on a server I am on, many of the big kingdoms feel the same way towards certain players, it's not just me feeling this way :)

  • Cheaters have been around since Classic Travian servers where you could purchase off/def bonus with gold and you were able to choose between TT EI or Paladin for a hero ^^, we're not discussing how they hurt the game in this thread...

  • Thank you for the history lesson however what I'm referring to is the contrast of how the game has developed in this new version of Travian esp. since the menhir era has come about. Obviously the menhir feature is awesome and gives the game a different play style which we have all adapted to but what I'm getting to is this mixed with cheaters (not off/def bonus) has somewhat changed how the game functions for attackers/defenders and a reevaluation of what is happening over multiple servers would be nice with the various opinions that support this idea.

  • Cheaters hurt the game we both know that, untraceable bots exist, we both know that. And I traded legends for kingdoms in April so I only know "menhir era" but I still don't get what kind of game you want to play... Like I said looks like you both are asking for a game set to easy or "Sand-box" where you can kill a bunch of clubs, have minimal casualties and don't worry about repercussions of your actions. This is a war game, some players lack the skill so they go the cheating route, but knowing that cheaters have been around since Classic and that only a few of them get caught it is what it is. But I honestly don't see an imbalance between offensive and defensive players, at the end of the day it's all about outplaying each other, not crying around because you lack the skills to do so.