Suggested changes to Menhir function

    Quote from Baron Max

    I would like if Menhir will completely remove. I remember old times and it was good times.

    Hey Baron can u explain how it worked before for us newer players?

    I think they introduced menhir to allow friends to play together, but problem is that its not used to just change location, it changes gameplay.

    Old strategies are not viable anymore because they dont factor menhir power <X

    Maybe they should remove it, you get stuck in the area you spawn and you learn to make new friends every server!

    One thing I noticed is that kingdoms move away out of the center closer to the WoW's where its full of croppers and safe from attacks.

    I think we should encourage battles and control over teritory, no more running away and simming!

    It also gives an advantage to premades who just cary over their whole squad server to server.

    I see plenty of kings cant fill their kingdoms because all the players are already in premades, they get less tributes and it messes the game up.

    #RemoveMenhirNow :thumbup:(no menhir on EUNX3)

    I love it, not in my wildest dreams I expected this amount of feedback, I will make sure each and everyone of them gets discussed and consider in the team.


    Thank you very much, and keep them coming please!


    In the mean time there are already some things I can mention, it doesn't mean the rest are not valid at all, please keep comments flowing.


    Quote from Hæim#NO

    2. You will keep all resource fields, but you can only menhir if you have a 4-4-4-6 village, and you can only be menhired to other 4-4-4-6 abandoned valleys.

    This would limit options drastically, specially for small kingdoms it could be harming.


    I love your way of thinking, ensuring the influence in honest players is limited or avoided, thank you very much!

    Regarding the 2 options mentioned there, it could work, I really like the options, but removing troops... it could harm honest players that are looking for a Kingdom as they would have less leverage to offer the kingdom they want to move into... but it can be studied.


    Quote from Mayo

    Regarding the rest, I think menhirs should be allowed until the account is in Beginners Protection, which would force people to take a decision on their gameplay on the server.

    This one could as well be a very good option, although it is more limiting for honest players too in the sense that new players may take longer to decide or understand where to be and how to play.


    I like the options, they could all work separately or in conjunction, the issue is how could it affect negatively honest players.

    Regarding vacation mode, could I ask you to open a new thread and expose this and any other issues you find with it?

    Just to try and keep this thread for menhir and we can attend the vacation issues completely in another thread of its own, as it probably deserves the right attention too.


    Quote from Tiitana

    and moving 15c next to 3x50% crop oases happens again.

    Thank you for pointing this out. There is a reason why we introduced resource piles and why menhirs cannot be place on 15c fields, we talked long about that earlier.


    And yes, it was not better before, it was much worst.


    Quote from Jak

    the problem I can see is when people use MA accounts to quickly cash in on endless amounts of resources, pushing their main account massively (via raids)

    So, what we need is a solution to make this unattractive for players that are thinking about multiaccounting, while honest players are not punished and have access to the menhir feature.


    Quote from Jak

    when an account dropped back below 200 pop they would re-enter BP mode

    May be I miss-remember, are you sure this was part of Kingdoms? RE-entering BP mode has high potential for abuse. You can attack someone and then go back into BP so they cannot retaliate. We need to find a better solution for this, specially one that will not make BP mechanics harder to understand as this is not going to be possible to implement.


    Quote from th0mm#NL

    - Remove all troops when menhiring

    We had this point before in other discussions about this topic. We don't do this. Why would a kingdom take you in when you don't even have troops to support it? Not everybody has a team they play with and even predefined teams can fight and break apart during a round

    Before menhir came ppl still went for outer WW's and destoyed their starter if they could coz there was no point on keeping it in enemy borders and since you couldn't menhir closer to your cropper choosing where you spawned mattered for those who wanted good cropper.

    Quote from Unknown

    So, what we need is a solution to make this unattractive for players that are thinking about multiaccounting, while honest players are not punished and have access to the menhir feature.

    Harsher punishments like do not let them choose what acc they want to keep and just delete them all

    Better cancel the Menhir than making so many laws. I think Menhir is such a system where x type of players will always find new ways to abuse it. Now server is like team players settle/relocate around mountain with very safe and passive play. It will be good for the spirit of the server if it have more action/diplomacy from the beginning.

    Quote from Tiitana

    Harsher punishments like do not let them choose what acc they want to keep and just delete them all

    This. You can make any number of rules, people will still find a way to cheat or exploit the system as that is the greatest advantage they can gain. If there were any proper punishments in place we wouldn't have to discuss this issue at all.

    In my opinion, it is enough to make the following changes:

    1) only 1 attempt to move around the menhir is available for each account. Any other movement on the map can be done without any problems, setting new villages in the right place for the player

    2) when moving, you can only take 500 units with you. This restriction should not cause any inconvenience at the start

    3) block any activity on your account during your vacation, delete all Boosts after leaving the vacation. Vacation is the player's problem, and the player must use this feature as a last resort if they can't find a sitter.


    Thank you administration for prompt response

    Ciao, guys!


    I think about next things.


    1. ToDo. Player must not use menhir after settle 2d village. It means next scenario should not be possible:
      1. Settle 2d village. Player has 2 villages at this moment.
      2. Destroy start village (for example with the main building). Player has 1 village at this moment.
      3. Use menhir.
        Of course this requirement should stay: if player has 2 or more villages it does not possible to use menhir.
    2. ToDo. Resource packages must be active only during Beginners protection.
    3. Note. Good idea from ApT about the amount of jumping troops. I can only add a note about queue in military buildings. It is also should be less than 1000 after relocation. But i think it is difficult to implement.
    4. ToDo. Player has to be limited to use menhir after ending of Beginners protection, as Mayo mentioned before. There are 7 days to make a decision about relocation (on x1). If you think it is not enough, you can add new quest "Relocation" with the description of menhir. In any case on the next server player will have enough time because of experience.
      New player (lets say first time playing player) can find nearest kingdom easy. It does not matter what kingdom player will enter.

    With best regards, smash

    I believe the only way to fix the problem is to take menhir out of the game. Even with penalties such as refractory period (or a one time only function), no resources refunded/ fields destroyed, and return to beginner protection it still allows for abuse. Furthermore, while not against the rules, I personally believe that the menhir's function as a speed settling method is an absurd mechanic which is also bad for balancing.


    The current function of menhir most strongly serves those who want to MA, those who are in prebuilt kingdoms, and those who want to speed settle. Because it favors these three groups, it is in no way beginner friendly and is a function more likely to alienate new players. I think if there was a steep penalty for using the menhir that took away the competitive edge it grants people who are using it for MA or speed settling, then it would still be open to abuse and unnecessary function in this game.


    From any suggestion given so far, the best case scenario is you limit the menhir abusers to people making MA defenders or you make it easier to form premade metas. Which is why I believe menhir should not be a part of this game.

    Quote from JoeBro2o

    I believe the only way to fix the problem is to take menhir out of the game. Even with penalties such as refractory period (or a one time only function), no resources refunded/ fields destroyed, and return to beginner protection it still allows for abuse. Furthermore, while not against the rules, I personally believe that the menhir's function as a speed settling method is an absurd mechanic which is also bad for balancing.


    The current function of menhir most strongly serves those who want to MA, those who are in prebuilt kingdoms, and those who want to speed settle. Because it favors these three groups, it is in no way beginner friendly and is a function more likely to alienate new players. I think if there was a steep penalty for using the menhir that took away the competitive edge it grants people who are using it for MA or speed settling, then it would still be open to abuse and unnecessary function in this game.


    From any suggestion given so far, the best case scenario is you limit the menhir abusers to people making MA defenders or you make it easier to form premade metas. Which is why I believe menhir should not be a part of this game.

    Step 1: Admit you have a problem! (MA & Quest Abuse)

    Step 2: Remove menhir and speed settle tactics (that force us to do same build over and over)

    Step 3: ???

    Step 4: Profit!

    Quote from Tipu79#EN

    Now server is like team players settle/relocate around mountain with very safe and passive play. It will be good for the spirit of the server if it have more action/diplomacy from the beginning.

    This happened before menhir too though, as a team we used full suicide settle of our spawn village (we just avoided building any res fields) but it didn't stop us deciding/planning our borders for the server, in truth, it didn't really impact on our gameplay much either.

    so in this respect menhir hasn't changed the function of deciding where you settle your team, it has just enabled you to keep a very undeveloped village day 2 instead of removing it and just having a cropper & then resettling inside borders asap afterwards


    the menhir feature gives all players a chance to find a team & also a chance to relocate to a better team if, as so many players do, they find an over-enthusiatic King that is full of words at the start & becomes a farm shortly after they lose their first battles in the early game


    If I had to choose between menhir in it's current state or a rollback to before we had it, I would also choose to remove it.

    But I feel menhir adds to the game for both new & old players & if a solution can be found to remove the abuse aspect from using it, then it's still a good feature for all.

    As King I cannot say how many times I have been asked to invite someone into our borders & have declined them due to our team being strong enough already, but I usually try to encourage these players to stay on the server & to ask around the map (recommending other good & long-term teams to approach) so that they may also find a team on the server and become a good enemy. If you remove menhir, then those players would just be left high n dry.

    also worth mentioning I have played this game from both sides of the pond

    as a King of a premade

    but also a a sole player on a random server & the menhir feature helped me find the right place to play in both instances

    Quote from Jak

    As King I cannot say how many times I have been asked to invite someone into our borders & have declined them due to our team being strong enough already, but I usually try to encourage these players to stay on the server & to ask around the map (recommending other good & long-term teams to approach) so that they may also find a team on the server and become a good enemy. If you remove menhir, then those players would just be left high n dry.

    Ideally, this is what every premade would do, but unfortunately not everyone enjoys a balanced, well-fought game. I think the concept of suiciding your spawn village is a much better solution because it allows for premade alliance play together while mitigating some of the benefit they get from being a prebuilt. Consider it a price for experience and the convenience of being close to kingdom members. Right now, as it stands, the people with the most experience have the most to gain from speed settling and menhir relocation. It MAY allow for newer players to better position themselves, but more often the not, it will just allow an out of control meta to grow a little bigger.

    Quote from Jak

    also worth mentioning I have played this game from both sides of the pond

    as a King of a premade

    but also a a sole player on a random server & the menhir feature helped me find the right place to play in both instances

    You are a well-respected member of this comunity with tons of experience. I know you would be able to utilize any mechanic in this game with ease. I am more so worried about the negative consequences it has on newer players (i.e. giving those with the most experience a greater edge with tactics like speed settling with no drawback), and the inevitable MA defenders or scouts who can cheat much easier with menhirs. However, these MAs will exist either way of course just with a smaller advantage.


    As a side note I would like to also suggest banning MAs! :/

    I understand your point. But this system like giving a rich more.. Imagine if a strong team found a way to play and build safely from 20 hrs after the game start. It will not not gives a fair chance to others resulting those who come to play without pre-team will face a nightmare while game in progress as a result either they play like simmer or delete. I know Travian HQ dont give a dam for them :).
    In old ways I play some servers and play with full noob team and still make a super impact in the game. Even a noob team play good when it sees team doing well. Those are the good memories hope it will come back somehow :(

    I think you guys are really overestimating the effect it has. While people using MA's do exist a lot of the time they get found out and even though they get to keep the main account winning through cheating is no win at all. In terms of speed settling - there are guides all over the forum on how to do it (Be2's speedsettling on steroids comes to mind) perfectly and you can even find that article from a google search. There is a down fall as well to speed settling in that your first village is gutted bare and more often than not you will have to delete it if it is too far from your team's chosen location. This is also why u see a lot of def players going for a slightly slower settle to maintain the first village and relocate to friends. I think the menhir function is super useful as it allows friends to play together without having to wait for 2nd village settle and also lets players escape from bad kings into the territories of a better one. I think a removal of this feature is out of the question it is extremely useful as a tool in the game: cheaters will always find a way to abuse a system and the correct solution is to implement proper punishments for these cheaters rather than destroying the mechanics which benefit the honest community.

    Templars now recruiting for current and future servers! If you are an experienced, english speaking player looking for a team to have fun and make friends with message me here or on discord at Crioliix#6146

    Like 4

    I am really enjoying the comments, I hope we can come up with some idea that could be key to keep the feature while avoiding the abuse some may try to use in them. So please keep ideas flowing, the smallest idea could develop into the game changer idea with input from others.


    But there is something I have to reply to, with honesty and truth. @Tipu79#EN I hope you don't really believe what you said regarding HQ not "giving a dam"...


    Probably you don't know me enough, but I assure you that if it was the case I would not be here... I have been with Travian Games since 2007... I would not accept "wasting" 13 years of my life in a company that doesn't care about its players.


    I have been several times at HQ and I have regular contact with people that work at HQ, as well as many others working around the globe... so far I have not found 1 that didn't care deeply for what we are doing.

    If TG has managed to celebrate it's 15th anniversary, it is because the culture at the centre of TG is to put players first.

    We will make mistakes, I assure you, we are human after all, but everything we do will be though out carefully and decided in the bases of what is best for the players long term.


    And with this I am not saying I agree with everything done along these years, but I know that the intentions are good and the reasons behind it solid.


    And yes, may be a few years ago, like a decade, we sinned of been inexperienced and could have done things better. But that is past and now we have a good team of people always fighting for you, the players and good processes and procedures to ensure you are listened to and we do all we can to attend your petitions when ever possible.



    Now, going back to menhir... as some of you mentioned, like Jak , there are good solid reasons why the menhir function adds to the game and we need to keep it.


    The most pressing issue then is, can we do something to avoid or dampen abusing that feature?


    How can we ensure that it is not worth abusing without damaging honest players in the process?

    I see two problems here:

    1. Using mehnir by multiaccounts to farm resources from them (used by dishonest players)

    2. Using mehnir with vacation to gain an advantage. (used by honest players)


    1. To solve the first problem, it is enough to make it impossible to quickly pull resources from such multiaccounts. To do this, you can limit the ability to take out resources from them depending on the RPH (resourses per hour) - for example, no more than 10 * RPH per day for 3 days. (3 days - for x3 speed)

    For honest players, nothing will fundamentally change, and dishonest players will have not the opportunity to farm tiles.

    But, after the mehnir, players must also be prohibited from buying resources at the rate more than 1-1 for more than the same 10 * RPH (again, 3 days) - since resources can be transferred from multiaccounts not only by farming, but also through the market.

    (it means, the difference between sold and taken resourses must be no more than 10*RPH)


    2. I am not sure that it is necessary to deprive the opportunity of gaining advantages for honest players who have the opportunity to use vacations and mehnir.

    But if you want to do this, then it is enough to prohibit using mehnir during the vacation and in the presence of a bonus from the vacation.

    I think you just have to make it fair for all


    Menhir was introduced to make it possible to move a start village & that really should be it's only purpose

    it should have no impact on speed settle, or army building, or farming. If it had no other function then there would be no point in making all those MA's to cash in on various extra benefits


    so in theory it would help the honest players & deter the dishonest players

    Quote from Unknown

    I am really enjoying the comments, ..

    I never play with pre team in any server till now.
    I can share experience from last 2 server.

    First one. we called it jumper.. Enemy player settle near to our WW when ww appear. Start new kingdom as a result it open a treasure spot instantly than some of jumper with huge offense relocate and destroy our ww. Than after few weeks. same thing happen again and again. we keep complain about this abuse and nothing happen. At some point same way they start new kingdom next to my hammer vill and raze my hammer vill in 20 mn with a 150k+ Teuton hammer (what a joke insane level of abuse). .Imagine feeding a 150k Teuton from a single 4446 vill. and jumping all around the places and keep erasing vill. 50-60 people delete from many kingdom because if this abuse.

    Next one. Our kingdom was rank 2. and suddenly came under attack from neighboring elite kingdom. Those attack was a shock. because their king build 30k hammer and all duke 20k+ hammer in first 35 days. They destroy 4 treasure vill+ 3 other vill (completely razed) in 5 days, As a result many people delete and team spirit became 0.

    All these abuse happen because people want to win no matter what. And if they find some tool they will abuse it in many ways. You impose a new law they will invent new..

    the first example is now not so easy to implement because they already made some changes & introduced a "cooldown period" after menhir happens where you cannot have troops actions with other players for 12 hours.



    the second example is exactly the reason we need to change the fundamentals of the menhir to make it not possible for those huge early game hammers to happen using menhir MA accounts to farm the resources from the res packages