I wish harsher punishments for MAing/botting + some game rule clarifications


    Punishments in the early days are too soft.


    If somebody gets caught with a multi they get a 10% pop penalty. In the early days that is only like 20-25 pop (which is rebuild in 1h). The advantage they gain for using multies lasts all round long.


    So in theory cheating is profitable in the early days.


    The early days are where you lay down the framework for the remainder of the server. If you cheat in these days you profit from it till the round ends.

    Quote from Unknown

    What do you think would be a more suitable punishment

    Like at the start of the round? Just delete their account from that server completly, without an option to come back. You can even use equipement for heroes timing for this, 1. tier (1. day to 40. day) will be a punished with deletion of their accs without an option to come back again, 2. tier (40. day to 80. day) you can delete their army, with halfing their levels of buildings (level 14 warehouse will become level 7) and complete destruction for barracks, stables, workshops (GS, GB included), and then the last 3. tier (80. day to ---) you can just keep your old punishment... - 1 level of buildings and delete their army and I would include destruction of racks, stables ect. here as well. What would I like to see is a thing that is already implemented in travian used here as an additionas punishment, that "attack blocade" players get it when they are using menhir, I think it can be implemented here as well... for example for 24 hours? What can be used as well is a prestige drop, because those multiacc users are sometimes players with high prestige so I think a good punishment for an account would be some sort of prestige drop... like 500 points drop.

    Punishments in the early stage should be harsh imo.


    - Delete acc

    - 7 day 'time penalty'

    - Block all accounts from that avatar for some time.

    - 'Restart', zero the whole acc and spawn a random start village.


    Players who get banned for cheating regularly shouldn't be able to wear the silver/gold prestige.


    ( wiping troops should ALWAYS be part of a punishment )

    I am totally ok with D-T and Th0mm#NL suggestions.

    And I would totally vote in both their favours for a new rules systems for MAing and BOTting.

    Players that use auto farmlist/botting, etc should have a penality depending on what type of bot they use.

    Exemple, someone using bot for farming (attacking/auto-trading/sending res between villages or whatever, (Not really good with what a bot can do in Travian, nlg) - Should have a general penality, and exemple if he was using it to farm, have a "non-attack possibility" like for the menhir for X hours, days, weeks or times. Depending on the situation of the server. (We wont lie that a server that's 25 days old and the guy with his 10k tts, ei or whatever troops he is using can farm A LOT even tho you wipe his army, cause it stays easy to remake troops- Not as much as he could from D1, but can still make a lot of troops.)

    I'm not sure if I explained my points rightfully, if it is not the case and nobody understand or you aren't sure about what i tried to say, please, let me know and i'll try to re-explain. (I'm very tired today and can't think straight anymore lol)

    My suggestion for botting could be a little extreme for some, but I think it would make the game more attractive to players since it does make a ton of difference using auto send. Just like the marketplace, raid lists could have auto-send option too.. but only as a part of T+ of course.

    Seems simple enough to me..fight fire with fire

    Quote from Smilzo

    The punishment for cheating should be to delete the account. If you want to continue, create a new account and start from sscratch. Stop.

    Every decent travian player stands here with you, however what you are proposing will never happen, actually it is not possible to happen.


    You forget TK is only still available for play because income from gold sales still covers the operating costs and garners a bit of profit on top. Therefore, TG will never, ever remove a potential gold buyer from the game, even if they brought an apocalypse upon it. The only solutions that 'can' or 'might' be considered are the ones that keep that player in the game, for the full duration of the round (so that player in question is in position to be 'tempted' to purchase gold as much as possible). Meaning, 10% pop punishment, -1 level of all buildings, removal of marketplace priviledges for a day, 10% less mines/crop production for a day/few days and similar. Proposing account deletion or anything as severe (while being proper) will never happen, and also require a professional to be hired on a hunter position, because account removals/deletions are not a small thing and you need someone experienced to spend hours investigating every trail leading to the occurance of cheating. Are you going to pay that individuals salary? TG certainly won't, as we witnessed for years now.


    Limit your expectations.

    Quote from Grimlocke

    Every decent travian player stands here with you, however what you are proposing will never happen, actually it is not possible to happen.


    You forget TK is only still available for play because income from gold sales still covers the operating costs and garners a bit of profit on top. Therefore, TG will never, ever remove a potential gold buyer from the game, even if they brought an apocalypse upon it. The only solutions that 'can' or 'might' be considered are the ones that keep that player in the game, for the full duration of the round (so that player in question is in position to be 'tempted' to purchase gold as much as possible). Meaning, 10% pop punishment, -1 level of all buildings, removal of marketplace priviledges for a day, 10% less mines/crop production for a day/few days and similar. Proposing account deletion or anything as severe (while being proper) will never happen, and also require a professional to be hired on a hunter position, because account removals/deletions are not a small thing and you need someone experienced to spend hours investigating every trail leading to the occurance of cheating. Are you going to pay that individuals salary? TG certainly won't, as we witnessed for years now.


    Limit your expectations.

    you could also look at it the other way around: how many gold buyers have already quit the game because of the multi-accounting? I think far more than the amount of cheaters using gold

    There should be some sort of long term punishment as well, then. Maybe give each account strikes. Each strike permently increases the punishment of that account. First offense could be the rules as stated, next hit could be a 7 day ban, 3rd is you just get wiped from the server every offense. Also I think there should be some backlash to the large meta kingdoms that have 20-40+ members of their kingdom banned every server. Perhaps a 2-5% Vp hit every banned member. The big problem lies in that the advantages of a cheater never goes away. The treasures their cheating created stays, the tributes they created stays, the opponents they defeated are still gone. I know some new players wont take the time to read the rules, or understand them, but I think how profitable cheating is in this game is literally killing it. With VPN's its even more of a problem. And i don't mean to be crass to the creators, but perhaps coding something to perhaps make multi hunting easier would be a better use of assets then a visual overhaul. We need to make sure players come back before we try to lure in new players with cute cartoon graphics. In its current state (in any state really) this game can be brutal. Its both its best and worst features. But you got to feel for new players that and in the middle of cutthroat multi kingdoms.

    Thank you very much for all the opinions, it is appreciated.


    First I will say that one of the reasons we don't published the punishment guidelines is to ensure players don't "calculate" what is worth doing or not.


    But that doesn't mean we don't have one.


    But there are some things I can say, for example punishments raises when there is re-incidence. That allows us to educate new players.


    It is not an easy task to do this, we don't want to scare new players with harsh punishments when they don't even know the rules of the game, many players may not actually read them. If we implement such harsh punishments for first time infractions we could easily loose new players that fail to follow the rules because they don't know them.


    On the other hand, persistent infractions receive harsher punishments. That is already part of the guidelines we have and the CSR team implements.


    Another thing that we do is that different infractions receive different punishments depending what the infraction is.


    But, this doesn't mean it cannot be looked at and, if need be, tweaked with time as we see the results of how it works.

    Quote from Unknown

    First I will say that one of the reasons we don't published the punishment guidelines is to ensure players don't "calculate" what is worth doing or not.

    So if you published them, would there be a way to calculate some form of cheating that would be worth doing?


    Shouldn't all cheating not be worth doing, or am I missing a point here?


    Also, players are going to figure this out even if you post them or not. There are already players who are testing the limits of what they can get away with and what they can't.

    Quote from Hæim#NO

    So if you published them, would there be a way to calculate some form of cheating that would be worth doing?


    Shouldn't all cheating not be worth doing, or am I missing a point here?


    Also, players are going to figure this out even if you post them or not. There are already players who are testing the limits of what they can get away with and what they can't.

    Its true that the people figure it out themselves and the publishing really doesnt matter.


    I think what Unknown is trying to point out is that its more probable for newcomers to make many accounts. I feel that lot have done it and a great number has grown out of it once they understand its not the right way while others explore their options.

    The sitter system is a form of MultiAccounting and I think the game couldnt operate on the current level without it. Add dualing and building an account gets 5 times easier. This is an example where Travian has effectively reduced the incetive to cheat.People who might have tried to use multiple accounts before have then found a team of players that help one another and the incentive to multiaccount is likely to go down. Of course curiosity or greed is what might pull them back to MAing and this is where Travian needs to create a new incentive to reduce multiaccounting. At this stage the sheer reality of the slow pace of the game leaves a lot of room for people to build other accounts in same server or just get bored and wanna try the "ideal game" strategies.

    I have proposed that a shared villages could be that incentive and give the feeling of faster progress. It wouldnt be a sure shot to reduce MA problem, but it would definately be an interesting option that could reinvent the game in the process.

    I am reformed. The reason I thought the community managers intentionally ignore my messages is because of Unknown reply(post 34) , which was 6hrs after my private message to him


    Suggestion:

    Minimum ban 24 hrs ban for cheaters.(I have seen 6hrs unban MAs)

    There is no way a naming ban(20) lasts longer than a cheating one.

    ------------------

    nevermind , TG sucks

    players violate the same rule got unbanned for a different period of time


    Ma cheating and bot is worthwhile to do it at the moment

    ma abusers can be unbanned 4~6hrs later
    so what you can do is farm multi and get troops to a high number
    even i]]f you get banned and your warehouse empty , you don;t need to worry as you already convert your stolen resources to troops

    - Unknown hasnt to do anything with tickets.

    - Your ticket isnt the only ticket.

    - What happened to the MA users in your kingdom? ( even in lead? )


    And yes, punishments are soft. Cheating at this moment is profitable.

    Diamond, the amount of time a ticket takes to be answered and a case to be dealt with depends on the amount of tickets the CSR has to deal with.


    It may be that you write over the weekend and have to wait longer, or it may be that you write just when the CSR is online answering tickets and your answer is done faster.


    It doesn't have anything to do with the type of infraction or even what you write about. The tickets are usually done in order, first come first serve.


    And I already mentioned this, but please, don't speak about individual cases, we cannot speak here of cases we don't know anything about and normally the point of view of one of the sides usually is a bit biased.


    So no reply can be said regarding the cases you mention, please note that in reality no one knows what happened on those cases except the affected one and the CSR.


    What ever any of the affected parties comments or says is always from a point of view that is affected by anger, pain, shame or may be even trying to hide something.


    So I would please ask you to keep on track, it is good to offer suggestions to improve the system, but not to speak about specific cases in the forum, where nothing can be done about it.


    If you have specific cases to discuss, you have to talk about your own case with the Help Center.


    They will deal with it in a timely manner, in my experience always inside 24 hours, and following the guidelines.

    I like this discussion and a lot of good options and reasons have been given, but for me, I rather see some improvement or actual feedback, than just talking about it.
    I know that you (Unknown), only can tell the team behind, regarding all this feedback. But it would really be encouraging to hear if any of these options are actually being thought about, and not just more talk, because a lot of these cheaters has a long reputation, and most people know who they are already, but we still continue to see them every single server. So it is kind of discouraging to see.

    Rather want to see to too "harsh" punishments than none at all, as it can be tweaked, down the line.