[Brainstorming] How can we encourage new players to join a kingdom?

    Dear players,


    this topic came up in another thread. It deserves its own thread because it is a huge topic: How can we encourage new players to join a kingdom? And how can we make veterans take on new players?


    Quote from leo#EN(19)

    A new player starts. Is the first thing they do to find a kingdom and menhir? Unlikely. There is no reason to. Nothing in the quests pushes them to do that. So we could address that. I would challenge you all to start a server and do the quests and not read the forums or message others to play like a new person. See how well that goes.


    Are decent kingdoms going to have space and incentive to add new players? At the beginning, no. Priority goes to the previous rounds players. Space can be limited. Mid-to-late round? No. They offer no value.


    These are assumptions. I don't have data just my observations from watching the games play out.


    So, do you also think, a quest "Join a kingdom" would help? Or do you have other ideas? And how should that quest be rewarded without benefiting experienced speed settlers even more than they do now from quest rewards?


    This thread is a brainstorming, that means, we are gathering ideas without judging them right away. Maybe a "bad idea" sparks a good idea in someone reading it (if so, please share :S )


    kind regards,


    B

    Yes making a "Join a kingdom" quest reward sounds interesting with maybe some hero items as a reward?


    also A few rounds ago (1 King, 4 Dukes system) new players joining a server used to spawn inside the current borders of a kingdom, not all were recruited, but we found some new recruits this way & combined with menhir feature the player also has options to move if things don't work out with their spawn location.


    But also make it harder to be King/Duke only allow a player that has finished a server to become a Royal, so that there is more chance they will have some experience around the commitment involved in doing so. Hopefully making a more stable Kingdom for the new recruits to join.

    Quote from Jak

    Yes making a "Join a kingdom" quest reward sounds interesting with maybe some hero items as a reward?


    also A few rounds ago (1 King, 4 Dukes system) new players joining a server used to spawn inside the current borders of a kingdom, not all were recruited, but we found some new recruits this way & combined with menhir feature the player also has options to move if things don't work out with their spawn location.


    But also make it harder to be King/Duke only allow a player that has finished a server to become a Royal, so that there is more chance they will have some experience around the commitment involved in doing so. Hopefully making a more stable Kingdom for the new recruits to join.

    I don't think menhir is mentioned at all in quests but if you do have this quest, please mention it as a possibility. Maybe a warning too that by not joining a kingdom, you will be at a great disadvantage. And having a bonus amount of resource income for kings from players with lower prestige (though this will certainly have to be countered with some way to de-incentivize Govs creating new accounts).


    BridgetB that thread also got me thinking more. And I have an idea that I'll post once I flushed it out more about an official "mentoring" feature. I know a lot of kingdoms have players who offer this. But with sticking with the theme of "kingdom", maybe having a "lord/lady" title that permits players to see account, without interacting, so they can offer advice. Basically provide the lord/lady an incentive that if the new player (yes this player must have lower than a certain amount of prestige and the lord/lady must have higher than a certain amount), plays a certain amount of time then the mentor gets gold. Or you can have resources similar to king/duke.


    There's more to flush out but just a teaser for an incoming post.


    Edit: a potential reward for a "join a kingdom" quest could be 3 treasures or something. It lines up with the game mechanics and doesn't ruin the early game by further mechanizing speed settling.

    For sure limiting who can become king / duke at the start of the server. You'll beat 2 problems with this.


    -Multi's making new king accounts to farm easy treasures and tributes from.

    -Inexperienced players choosing this important role.


    Make Duke invite possible from first silver star.

    Make King option possible from first gold star.


    The fact people can't Menihr anymore after their second village is great, but I'm pretty sure most players won't menihr if they read 'all fields will be zero again, but you get some resources back'


    But you must havea data available from actual new players who menihr and then stay in the game.


    Another way is have fresh new accounts choose what kingdom they settle before their village pops on the map. Give them a list of 5 kingdoms in the area that are not overcrowded already and let them choose. The king can write a little message to promote their kingdom. The player wont be given any other info, just the kingdom name and promotional message from the king.

    This could also be possible for older accounts, but I guess that's not the topic here.

    I'm also a fan of only allowing kings and dukes to be assigned at registration. It makes the decision heavier and also limits abuse. And means no menhir for kings and dukes, I think, which adds more strategy and diversity in locations of people throughout the game.

    I used to like the old "tax" sistem, where the king could set a % production for the villas inside the kingdom border. Also somethign like "Kingdom Objetives" like "Sell X amount of treasures this week, for the next week treasures sold give 5% more res" or "Raid X amount of ress to get a bonus againts robbers".

    Maybe a lankmark sistem, that could work kinda like a WW where the kingdom need to put ress and effort to to build a lankmark that buff the kingdom troops o ress production. The point is to have something that makes you want to be part of a kingdom apart of selling treasures.


    Quote from leo#EN(19)

    I'm also a fan of only allowing kings and dukes to be assigned at registration. It makes the decision heavier and also limits abuse. And means no menhir for kings and dukes, I think, which adds more strategy and diversity in locations of people throughout the game.

    For kings maybe, but for dukes it's kinda hard, it could work for pre-made teams, but that would kill the chance of new kingdoms to form.

    "The Moon is a mysterious mistress who walks the night with demons of dread"

    Like 1

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    A certain game has this warning every time you boot it up. Maybe just making it clear what your goal is could be enough? I don't think it's too difficult ending up in a kingdom so long that you at the very least are willing to talk to other people. If you are not even willing to do that, you shouldn't be in a kingdom to begin with because if you can't coordinate, you are practically dead weight.

    You're reading this. Think about it.

    Care 1
    Quote from Jak

    Yes making a "Join a kingdom" quest reward sounds interesting with maybe some hero items as a reward?

    the reward is the tricky part. A hero item sounds good at first glance, and then comes the big BUT:

    1. If every player got the same hero item, that specific items is losing its value completely. In short: When everyone has it, no one has it (except players who didn't find a kingdom yet and they have even a bigger disadvantage). I mean, we do a similar thing with the boots of the chicken in one of the first adventures, but they loose their value really fast once a player has more troops.
    2. If every player got a random hero item, we could just give out an extra adventure point and could use an already existing game mechanic. But would you even want another extra adventure that early in-game? Your hero might day from all the adventure points you already get from other quests at that time of the game
    3. I like the idea that was brought up to get some stolen goods. It's fitting into the lore and I am trying to play the devil's advocate here, but I don't come up with anything yet. If you do, please share.


    Quote from leo#EN(19)

    I don't think menhir is mentioned at all in quests but if you do have this quest, please mention it as a possibility.

    Do I understand you correctly that you wouldn't want a quest about using the menhir feature alone? I also would prefer to keep the quest more generic as "join a kingdom, no matter how" so that a player can also join the kingdom they spawn in. Or did you mean a menhir quest for kings, like: "Invite a governor via menhir"? That would definitely be an interesting idea as well.


    Quote from Jak

    But also make it harder to be King/Duke only allow a player that has finished a server to become a Royal,


    Quote from iribuya

    For sure limiting who can become king / duke


    We actually do have a limit in place. If there are not enough kings/kingdoms available, it is deactivated, though. Do I get this right that you want us to reinforce these limitations? If so, what would be the amount of "enough kings on one game round" for you? And yes, it could be different for speed rounds and for regular rounds.


    Quote from leo#EN(19)

    I'm also a fan of only allowing kings and dukes to be assigned at registration.

    That would be very restrictive and wouldn't allow different strategies on how to prepare for a kingdom union. I hope there is another way to keep the sandbox feeling for strategies as open as possible.


    Quote from Haliax

    Maybe a landmark system, that could work kinda like a WW where the kingdom need to put ress and effort to to build a lankmark that buff the kingdom troops o ress production. The point is to have something that makes you want to be part of a kingdom apart of selling treasures.

    You mean something like a loyalty system that would reward players who are part of a kingdom and stay in it?


    Quote from Hæim#NO

    A certain game has this warning every time you boot it up. Maybe just making it clear what your goal is could be enough?

    That's a great idea to have some new messages in the loading screen and not just "sharpen your swords" (which is my favorite one). Thanks for sharing!

    bbash-tada Community Communications Manager bbash-partyhat


    Quote from BridgetB

    If so, what would be the amount of "enough kings on one game round" for you? And yes, it could be different for speed rounds and for regular rounds.

    Not sure why you would have this option open for anyone if there aren't enough. New players will screw their own start up if they choose king and get rolfstomped first week and turn into inactive farms.


    There is no difference in speed or regular regarding the balance between King/Duke and Gov. Perhaps you can just add 1 or 2 more gov to the max spawns for new kings and then lower the bonus tribute res.


    Quote

    You mean something like a loyalty system that would reward players who are part of a kingdom and stay in it?

    I think they mean like mini-wonders. Big statues in the land you can claim / chief as kingdom that give a bonus to the whole kingdom or villages around it. Extra resource-troops-cp-crop production or warehouse capacity - wall strenght. Bunch of other options to make them attractive.

    Quote from BridgetB

    That would be very restrictive and wouldn't allow different strategies on how to prepare for a kingdom union. I hope there is another way to keep the sandbox feeling for strategies as open as possible.

    I'm not sure what exactly you mean here but I believe you are illusioned on how this game works in practice.


    Quote

    Do I understand you correctly that you wouldn't want a quest about using the menhir feature alone? I also would prefer to keep the quest more generic as "join a kingdom, no matter how" so that a player can also join the kingdom they spawn in. Or did you mean a menhir quest for kings, like: "Invite a governor via menhir"? That would definitely be an interesting idea as well.

    I mean the quest writers need to mention the word menhir in the quests. There is no mention right now. No new player has any understanding of what it is. If it is for new people...it should be very easily mentioned to new people."Join a kingdom. In order to be successful in this game, join a kingdom. The larger and more experienced the better for you. If the kingdom around you isn't good enough, feel free to menhir to a kingdom elsewhere. Simply message the king of that kingdom and request they set a menhir."

    Quote from leo#EN(19)

    I'm not sure what exactly you mean here but I believe you are illusioned on how this game works in practice.

    This comment makes me feel offended. I wish you would ask questions next time when you are assuming what my point of view is.

    Be assured, there are more ways than one to play Travian Kingdoms. And different players do use different strategies. I understand that it is sometimes easy to project the own game style and what the common guidelines say to everyone. Limiting the role option to only at the registration is definitely to restrictive.


    Quote from iribuya

    I think they mean like mini-wonders.

    I get that. What I head in mind when reading Gorthaur ' post was the governors' view on a feature like this: it sounds like a bonus card for your own kingdom so you get rewards for being loyal. Whatever the action of loyalty includes.


    Quote from leo#EN(19)

    I mean the quest writers need to mention the word menhir in the quests. There is no mention right now. No new player has any understanding of what it is.

    It is explained in the in-game help under village > relocation. Are you talking about a quest or do you you want the menhir feature to be more visible in-game in general? Like that helping chieftain at the beginning of a game round on the bottom right; he could talk about the menhir feature/link to the in-game help pages for example? That guy:


    pasted-from-clipboard.png

    bbash-tada Community Communications Manager bbash-partyhat


    There surely are more ways than one to play this game. There is however only one that results in the highest resource production and troop count on top of victory points. One might say the meta. You can try other things, but newer players are very vocal on wanting to experience this military-like structure of well organized kingdoms whenever we encounter them. So I would strongly agree with leo and point out that you seem, in fact, illusioned about how this plays out. Are we going to argue next about how its totally valid to play without gold if you want to be better than top 20% of players? good one.


    Anyways, minor comment on topic, make it easier for kingdoms to communicate and promote. Give actual structures through discord and the forum as well as ingame chats, not the one friggin thread per server "type here if you are looking for a kingdom" and.. like, nothing pretty much, on discord. Implement tools for actual ingame communication (that preferably DONT break for the first month of every server). On top of the previously mentioned quests that incentivise joining the kingdom structures (and honestly also the meta gameplay). Quest reward is quite simple- small chunks of gold, say for example 20 gold each on 3 different occasions for quest progress. It is meaningful, and everyone can decide according to their planning skills what to do with it. Absolutely perfect for this occasion. I know you wont do these things, but there you go.

    Quote from BridgetB

    We actually do have a limit in place. If there are not enough kings/kingdoms available, it is deactivated, though. Do I get this right that you want us to reinforce these limitations? If so, what would be the amount of "enough kings on one game round" for you? And yes, it could be different for speed rounds and for regular rounds.

    Personally I would rather have fewer & better quality Kingdoms forming for the sake of the Govs that have to survive in them. In the end we are lucky if we get 10 good kingdoms on a server, so I feel restrictions could be a good thing?
    But also maybe the spawn area of Kings, could be spread further? start-up always has multiple kingdoms all cramped on top of each other around 0/0 & perhaps having more space between each one might help the longevity of a kingdom too?


    I'm trying to look at this from all senarios & am struggling to see logic in having none-prestige players as Royals.

    Whilst it's true None prestige Royals are the most likely to recruit new players, this is never usually a great choice in the long-term & a lot of players leave the server because their kingdom collapsed or got merged with the enemy, due to having inexperienced Kings/Leaders.


    From experience I have noticed that most zero-prestige players are either really new to the game, so really should focus on learning the basics for themselves before taking on the responsibility of managing other players & a kingdom.

    or

    They tend to be Teams that are using extra accounts to make "temporary" Royals to expand their borders & coverage until a later stage in the game when they can all be absorbed into their main kingdom.


    Also there is a bit of abuse around this happening too ....

    A King is decided, he plays King for several days, then he recruits a zero-prestige Duke (Usually new to the server) & abdicates, then the Duke becomes King and the treasures are safe for another week, then they rinse & repeat, meaning their Treasures are protected by BP for as long as they wish to continue switching to "new" Kings. Then at some point when they are usually transferred to some other Kingdom & that other/main Kingdom benefits from having extra passive treasures brought in from making these Temp Royals.


    The only time I can see where a zero prestige player could be eligible to start as a Royal is if they only ever played as a dual, but then they usually would have options, at least until such a time they had played their own account enough to have the required prestige to start.



    Quote from BridgetB

    I like the idea that was brought up to get some stolen goods. It's fitting into the lore and I am trying to play the devil's advocate here, but I don't come up with anything yet. If you do, please share.

    I like the idea of some stolen goods too :)

    Agree with Jak.


    It's never a good idea to give truely new players the option as king. They have no clue what they are up against. If the game is new, or even if they come from legends, the gameplay is totally different for a king then a governor.


    What I meant is that new players can't choose king role at the start, but see it with a text explaining this is unlockable by finishing a server or reaching X prestige.


    I agree with you that it's NOT needed to set the options in stone at the start of the server. If experienced players turn to king halfway or duke that's totally cool.


    About the miniwonders or artifact pillars, that should have a whole new thread, but is certainly something that could create a better midgame and more incentive to join an active kingdom.

    Quote from iribuya

    I agree with you that it's NOT needed to set the options in stone at the start of the server. If experienced players turn to king halfway or duke that's totally cool.

    Can you elaborate on why? What good reason is there for this? Why would this be a strategy that happens or should be allowed to happen? From my experience it only happens to take advantage of the game mechanics. Not because of strategy.

    All players have personal/player quests.....

    I have always wondered why there arent Kingdom quests....like:
    ~ "Build X amount of troops while in the kingdom"

    ~ "Have X amount of treasuries"

    All with rewards that benefited the Kingdom.....like perhaps a 1 time reward...or passive bonus awards that rewards % more resources.

    Perhaps some quests could be defensive in nature like; "Have 20 crannies in the kingdom"...with the reward being...crannies are 10% more effective.
    Its a war game....and some times front line players arent online enough to watch their acct....so encouraging players to build defensive structures is good.

    Just an idea i like....would keep players in a kingdom more active in trying to reach these kingdom goals........especially in down times when there isnt alot of action going on.

    Quote from iribuya

    Because that would make a king going inactive even shittier.

    If this is the only reason then I don't think it is enough. There are far more pros to making kings a larger commitment and this can be addressed in other ways. The duke with highest treasures automatically becomes king. Or the Duke has an option to specify a new king. My thoughts at least. As I've pointed out before, what are the statistics of players being effected by an inactive king vs the number of players taking advantage of the game mechanics to set themselves up in a better position about being king.


    We can also look at the lore and story aspect. A king/queen is a birthright. It is something the account should be born with. And lives with until they die. If a king/queen steps down they are banished. The only way to become king/queen historically without being born is to usurp/revolt. Which requires winning a war. To me, from the mechanics/strategy aspect or story aspect it doesn't make sense for the kiing/queen decision to be so light and inconsequential. Jax worded it better. At the very least you should have a reputation/prestige to a certain point.


    I think it would provide a ton more strategic decisions and opportunities in the game if kings were set at the beginning. Players have to settle wherever the king starts, no menhiring to a WW. The number of kingdoms is fixed in a server. The number of players per kingdom is drastically reduced. Right now at the beginning most large kingdoms have 3-4 wings to fit everyone. Instead, you have to plan differently. Your region size is smaller and planning to connect regions become more of a task. It becomes more enhanced when dukes are set.

    Quote from BridgetB

    You mean something like a loyalty system that would reward players who are part of a kingdom and stay in it?

    Yes, something like that, we need the kingdom to be more impacfull for everyone, it's cool to be able to get extra ress from treasures, and see the incoming atacks, but that's it, alo something like:

    Quote from SacredLegend

    I have always wondered why there arent Kingdom quests....like:
    ~ "Build X amount of troops while in the kingdom"

    ~ "Have X amount of treasuries"

    This could work, Kingdoms objectives sounds very nice.

    "The Moon is a mysterious mistress who walks the night with demons of dread"

    ~ Build x amount of off/def units as kingdom.
    ~ Destroy x building lvls of kingdom that is in top 3 of VP leaderboard.
    ~ Kill x amount of troops while defending fellow kingdom member. "Works only when attacker is in kingdom that is in top 5 of attacking leaderboard"