Treasures and treasuries - Kingdom member can't take treasures out of active treasury

    Quote from Cool and Crazy#EN

    I am all for an active play. I try to make ops twice a week to keep the fun in the game for everyone.

    So are we, there is nothing stopping you reaching this goal at the moment, do it, have fun, Carry on making Op's twice a week, start one today, plan them well, don't be predictable or just aim for the jugular (remember you're only as good as your last Op) you can have weeks & months of fun on any server if you have the mindset for it. :)


    The change that needs to happen is not about game mechanics, it's stopping gamers abusing game mechanics. One day change will happen (I stay positive on this one) & we will have our beautiful game back, instead of this ugly version everyone is suffering atm

    Quote from Jak

    So are we, there is nothing stopping you reaching this goal at the moment, do it, have fun, Carry on making Op's twice a week, start one today, plan them well, don't be predictable or just aim for the jugular (remember you're only as good as your last Op) you can have weeks & months of fun on any server if you have the mindset for it. :)


    The change that needs to happen is not about game mechanics, it's stopping gamers abusing game mechanics. One day change will happen (I stay positive on this one) & we will have our beautiful game back, instead of this ugly version everyone is suffering atm

    I think that your "good old days" mindset is your biggest enemy in this. This game, just like any other, needs to evolve, or it dies out. Change is absolutely crucial in making any game feel fresh and attract attention.


    Any impactful change which introduces new mechanics will have drawbacks and will introduce new ways of abuse. If we are afraid of the abuse, no change ever gets implemented.

    Menhirs, that many people hate here, brought me into the game. I think it is a good change and I would not want it reverted. It is up for the TK team to patch up all the potential abuse that comes with. The fact that it takes so long is a separate issue and imo that is absolutely unacceptable.


    I am all for any change that will shake up the meta and force adaptation. Be it this change or any other, I dont care. Of course, the TK team should proceed with caution, think it through thoroughly, but without implementing it, they will never be able to predict its consequences fully. I feel this game is in a state where any change will be profitable. Abusers should never be an obstacle in evolution.This game needs "good new days", no looking back.

    Quote from Jak

    No, it's there for a reason, can you imagine the abuse that would happen if every Tom, Dick & Harry could randomly steal VPs without a kingdom? these abusers you are suffering would have a field day, some already do but at least they have to make a kingdom before they can steal VPs.


    please take a step back, think for a moment about the consequences of change. Look at it from 2 extreme perspectives .... The New Guy/Team on the server verses the Abusers/Multies that are rife at the moment, that is the gap we have to close to make progress.


    @Leo#19 is totally correct, some of us dream of being endlessly attacked to suggest we have fear or no vision is just a ludicrous suggestion.

    Suffering? Kingdom is created instantly and you just have to enter the kingdom just before the impact, immediately after the impact you will return to your kingdom.

    Sometimes your unswers sounds as if you were convinced that you know the game better than those you write with here, but then you write things that even a newcomer will refute you. Don't be as a Qwr, please. So calm down, if you want to discuss, let's go back to the normal discussion that is in this topic.

    The concern you mentioned till now:


    • A small kingdom will not resist a big one - the same as now, it depends on the capabilities of the kingdom and their allies.
    • The small kingdom will lose both the def and the treasures - now they will lose their treasury and the treasures are useless to them, only a change for the better, they can get them back by attack or somewhere else.
    • A kingdom that will have a lot of treasures will be a target - of course, there is always someone who can get something. You want to have a lot of treasures, you have to be able to defend it.
    • Small kingdom is easy target for big one - bigger kingdom is easier target for small kingdom (although it has more units, but def must be spread over more places). Also there will be more fights against treasures, this also brings greater losses. Thus, the battles between the larger kingdoms will be more frequent, and thus the numerical advantage of the larger kingdoms will be reduced.
    Quote from Jak

    So are we, there is nothing stopping you reaching this goal at the moment, do it, have fun, Carry on making Op's twice a week, start one today, plan them well, don't be predictable or just aim for the jugular (remember you're only as good as your last Op) you can have weeks & months of fun on any server if you have the mindset for it. :)


    The change that needs to happen is not about game mechanics, it's stopping gamers abusing game mechanics. One day change will happen (I stay positive on this one) & we will have our beautiful game back, instead of this ugly version everyone is suffering atm

    I do it same, I don't understand what it has to do with the possibility of stealing treasures and VP? Or you think you found the Holy Grail?


    I agree about this - stopping gamers abusing game mechanics. But something they cannot stop, for example multiaccounting. Its so easy in these days, to have more devices and internet connections. Hope may die last, but it seems to me that it is her turn.

    Quote from Cool and Crazy#EN

    Yeah, because making a kingdom is too hard to do now.


    Maybe stop talking in riddles and give examples. I am not an all seeing, all knowing individuum. I never pretended to be.

    I'm not sure why you felt I was making fun of you and so off topic when I said exactly this. Creating a kingdom isn't something that people should do without playing in a larger one first if their goal is to be competitive. A new kingdom is hard to build. It requires experience. Experience you won't get through just the forums and not something that should require game mechanic changes. Examples are easier to see than they are to describe. Maybe that is ok though. Or maybe enough people think it would be wise to lower the bar for leading a successful kingdom. But that is very far away from the problem brought up in the OP.

    Either I didn't communicate well (it happens) or you misunderstood my point to Jak about the "good ole days." It wasn't to suggest that they do not understand changes are inevitable or that evolution has happened. It was to hope they would jump back in and lead through example to compliment all the hard work in the forums encouraging people and "righting the game."


    I also think menhirs had the right intentions fwiw. I just think there are other changes that need to happen to make welcoming new people better. Topic for another thread. As for the idea, I would encourage you to read through some other ideas on how TK can reduce kingdom sizes to help build a fuller picture.


    Brief discussions here:

    - My feedback as a newer player

    - Catapulting Stats and Bonuses (full disclosure, mine)

    - Reducing VP production for big Kingdoms

    - No Union, smaller Kingdoms (familiar name, Jak's)


    I think we can all agree that we think there are some potential imbalances and we should focus on that instead of attacking each other ideas and personalities. What if, instead of this thread being about stealing treasures from your own treasury, we created a thread about kingdoms becoming too large and powerful, leaving only 2-3 in any given server to actually be able to compete. Smaller ones (small meaning <80 people, new leadership, no wings/pre-agreed union) simply cannot compete. That could pull in all of the ideas that have been discussed around it and more. Allow people to freely discuss those and provide an environment where we can always pull back to the original problem, not why a solution is "bad." Example: "I don't think that will actually help solve the problem because it will lead to X and Y" and "If we were to implement that, how it would interact if we also did X to further create balance." Both of which are very constructive. They focus on solving the problem we all agree on and help to communicate without trying to win an argument about one solution.

    Cool and Crazy#EN Guncek_COM we agree on so much, but yet you carry on trying to put me down. I won't be silenced in this way, never going to happen, sorry


    so @ Cool& Crazy

    Didn't I in my last post say I am hopeful for change? why would you think I wouldn't want it, it's just this suggestion isn't a good one (neither of you suggested might I add, wonder where Tobionic disappeared to?)


    I am not against menhir either, if it's played as intended (problem is so many choose to abuse it)

    I think if this was properly fixed we could get back to some more balanced servers.


    We (my team) have been against Meta's throughout our crusade in TK, we always endorsed a smaller kingdom ethos & mentality & had a lot of success with it, just want to say I'm always approachable if anyone needs any advice on this.


    Change will happen when there is "another way"

    half of what you both say here in your counter arguments is "well this is how it is now, so what's to lose"

    fun-fact TK wont make a change that is equal to "how it is now" what's the point in that?

    They have changed things before, they will again as Unknown says often, we just have to be more patient. If nothing was going to happen they wouldn't be entertaining us any more. Admins certainly don't deserve the amount of abuse they receive & I will always the defend the game passionately.


    And now @ Guncek

    Small kingdoms can resist a Big one. We did it multiple times, we posted a lot about it in the hope that it would inspire others to do the same & we hear many times it did, so we were always well pleased to have made an impression. :)


    Everyone loses def, that's why we build it, but small kingdoms don't need to lose treasures & knowing they will be targeted (just because they are small) they can plan this from day one & start with a good defence, problem is most don't, they go all out aggressive and then start crying when the big guy comes takes their candy (just 'cos they can). teams need to pick fights with similar sized kingdoms until they have the troops to poke a bigger bear.


    Yes any decent amount of treasures will be targeted (this again is another reason why some might want to hide them) so that they can plan to defend them better or move them to safety & defend the village kill the troops slow the attackers & they might going looking for an an easier target instead.


    Small Kingdoms are an easy target, they can also be full of surprises, if you plan to stay small you have to work twice as hard, that's just how it is. Sometimes you win, sometimes you lose, the thrill of the fight this is what makes it exciting, we never played in fear, even as a small kingdom we stayed in contention & choosing to be part of a small kingdom means you will have more fights & less sleep than those lazy simmers do in the safety bubble of their meta's


    (Maybe we did find the Holy Grail ;) maybe we still have it in our possession :D )


    and never say never, I think when they have a proper solution we will hear about it


    I hope you will be successful in your Op's & it would be nice if you could share the results sometime :)

    (I am not the enemy, please understand this)

    Just about the kingdom i think you understand wrong, we were talking about steeling VP by attacker without kingdom. How i understand that was answer for this:


    Quote from Jak

    No, it's there for a reason, can you imagine the abuse that would happen if every Tom, Dick & Harry could randomly steal VPs without a kingdom? these abusers you are suffering would have a field day, some already do but at least they have to make a kingdom before they can steal VPs.

    So he answer : Yeah, because making a kingdom is too hard to do now.

    Also i answered this: Suffering? Kingdom is created instantly and you just have to enter the kingdom just before the impact, immediately after the impact you will return to your kingdom.


    Thats how you can steel VP from kingdom, who is ranked in VP below you.

    Quote from Jak

    Yes any decent amount of treasures will be targeted (this again is another reason why some might want to hide them) so that they can plan to defend them better or move them to safety & defend the village kill the troops slow the attackers & they might going looking for an an easier target instead.

    Just to hone in on this and provide example that you sought. If a kingdom has a tendency to hide treasures, use that to your advantage. Send fakes that force them to hide it around server count time. Scout nearby players to see if you can see where it's moved. If it is the same one/few then fake those as well. Throw in some reals if they get complacent.

    Quote from leo#EN(19)

    Creating a kingdom isn't something that people should do without playing in a larger one first if their goal is to be competitive. A new kingdom is hard to build. It requires experience. Experience you won't get through just the forums and not something that should require game mechanic changes. Examples are easier to see than they are to describe. Maybe that is ok though. Or maybe enough people think it would be wise to lower the bar for leading a successful kingdom. But that is very far away from the problem brought up in the OP.

    I agree that it should not be easy to found a kingdom, but that is a separate issue, that has its own thread in the forum. I was just reacting to another of Jak's faulty claims about why people without kingdom should not be able to take VPs. Because now, it is so easy to found a kingdom, then it makes no sense to distinguish people without or within a kingdom in the game mechanics.

    Quote from leo#EN(19)

    As for the idea, I would encourage you to read through some other ideas on how TK can reduce kingdom sizes to help build a fuller picture.

    I have read them. I just dont have anything to add, so I dont post there. Thats a pretty useful skill, people seem to lack in the online era.

    Quote from leo#EN(19)

    Both of which are very constructive. They focus on solving the problem we all agree on and help to communicate without trying to win an argument about one solution.

    I am trying to be constructive, but it is hard if the other party presents no arguments, but just brags about their own superiority. But it happens all over media, internet and stuff, so not surprised. Downside of the modern age.

    Quote from Jak

    Didn't I in my last post say I am hopeful for change? why would you think I wouldn't want it, it's just this suggestion isn't a good one (neither of you suggested might I add, wonder where Tobionic disappeared to?)

    Once you start mentioning potential abuse and multies, that is just the end of it. Every change is abusable, but that shouldnt prevent it from being implemented.

    Quote from Jak

    half of what you both say here in your counter arguments is "well this is how it is now, so what's to lose"

    this is because you are throwing many counterarguments that are unchanged whether the OPs proposal gets implemented or not. You can as well say that this proposal is bad because the Earth orbits the Sun. It is irrelevant.


    So please tell me, one last time. Why do you think this change punishes more small kingdoms than big ones? Because as I have tried to argue, it does not seem to be the case. At worst it goes both ways.

    Quote from leo#EN(19)

    Just to hone in on this and provide example that you sought. If a kingdom has a tendency to hide treasures, use that to your advantage. Send fakes that force them to hide it around server count time. Scout nearby players to see if you can see where it's moved. If it is the same one/few then fake those as well. Throw in some reals if they get complacent.

    But that is what everybody does. It is not like hidden treasures are untouchable. There are absolutely ways around it. The differences is, and what the OPs proposal is mainly about, is that stealing active treasures from stronger kingdom grants you VP and the stronger kingdom loses VP. And it introduces more ways of taking active treasures. Imo, this change is not so much about treasures but rather about VPs.

    Quote from Cool and Crazy#EN

    So please tell me, one last time. Why do you think this change punishes more small kingdoms than big ones? Because as I have tried to argue, it does not seem to be the case. At worst it goes both ways.

    I don't want to explain it fully, because I don't want to make it even harder in the current situation for the smaller kingdoms, if I post exactly what will happen, then this could be put into practice & create change with how the meta's currently operate. You can PM me if you want it fully explained ;)