[Feature Feedback II ] Fealty System explained

  • It is likely that one spot of the "duke" postion is used to invite players outside borders early on to remove this.

    Still it poses some issues. If player opens temporary treasury there, gets oases and deactivates the oases are still highly contested by surrounding kingdoms and may be lost any minute.

    And if a player, as Qwr mentioned, becomes duke for a few seconds and then gets demoted to governor instantly he will simply have no oases.

    Anyone constantly playing with 15 coppers and heavy gold usage will see that this update makes life much harder for them.
    And it makes life better for Free to Play players. So I still stand by my arguments.

  • Seems like a sneaky way to pay make the game even more pay to win. Have plus players reach the highest tier bonus twice as fast. This included the 10% strenght in def and attack.

    Sad to see the big and exiciting news is not something to make the game actually better.

    iribuya I think you missed the point that even if you have gold enabled 24/7 for the whole server you still get ONLY 1 % INCREASE when compared to Free to Play.

  • It seems like the general consensus is that fealty would basically benefit veteran gold users, metas, and doesn't really help new players.

    To me a way to balance that out would be to put these bonuses not on the kingdom but rather on the treasuries, making it so kings and dukes pay very close attention to where they establish themselves and makes the stakes so much higher for defending treasuries. I personally don't like how for any big operations its super easy to take down treasuries and move treasures around. It may not be the perfect solution, but it would give the little guys more leverage in conducting offensive operations and also gives defenders an incentive to be active in their kingdom to prevent the loss of their local treasury and the fealty bonuses.

  • Workshop and CP bonuses should swap places. CP benefits everyone, while workshop only benefits off players. The way this is set up now, def players receive benefits every other level versus off players getting a benefit every level (excluding hero XP bonus) early on. CP is also always beneficial, where as the players who are building massive croppers as off players may not even start building workshops to 20 by the second level. So by swapping CP and workshop bonuses, you would likely get better utilization.

    Great feedback! We will definitely consider swapping workshop and CP bonuses.

    I understand the column I think. The math is still not lining up.

    8400 points for level 7. 8400 / 100 for non-plus users = 84 days. 8400 / 150 for plus users = 56 days. As I said, if you have plus every day, it should be column d * (1/1.5) basically. You're just changing rate so they should be proportional.

    I would like to indicate that I think your math is incorrect:

    Thanks you two! Numbers are adjusted in this post and will be adjusted in the translated discussions soon, too.

    My point was, these numbers may need adjusting once they are tried out. As mentioned in another post, I think you only need a subset of these advantages or to decrease them by an order of magnitude. But only trying them out will tell.

    Do I understand you correctly that we should not change any numbers yet before starting a test world?

    A brand new player may end up switching kingdoms multiple times.

    Or the brand new player will stay in the first kingdom they join. This feature is encouraging players to not switch, no matter if new are experienced.

    Would a bonus based on prestige help alleviate this problem?

    we that about this, too. At the end of the day, prestige is something you carry with to other rounds and don't have much immediate impact the current game round. That's why we decided against it.

    This is cool solution, but has some flaws other players pointed out.

    Thanks for leaving your comment. Which is the biggest flaw you see that should be addressed?

    Not a good idea to buff training time and battle stat..buffing these parameters are too rewarding and will likely cause imbalance to the game.

    Replace them to something less rewarding and more PVE in nature, like reduce hero revive time, attack bonus to robbers, slightly more resources for stolen goods etc.

    I can't understand the reason to give players so much advantages by just staying inside a kingdom.

    Thank you for sharing these great ideas <3 We will think about it.

    Wouldn't it be possible to tie these fealty points to something else than simple activity?

    You mean like the daily quests? I mean like combining the daily quests and the fealty system in one feature?

    BUT... It is no secret that the best teams that utilize heavy amounts of gold always go for the best 15 croppers all across the map, regardless where it is.
    So now all these heavy gold users will have to make hard decision:
    A) Get a the best cropper but lose the 10% Fealty bonus later when they want to join their main kingdom.
    B) Play with a bad cropper, but get the Fealty bonus ASAP.

    For F2P players this will never be an issue, because they usually play around their kings with their 6c/9c capitals. So they always get the bonus anyway.

    So yeah, I have to come to a conclusion that this is a substantial nerf to P2P players.

    Thanks for mentioning this! Yes, we also see this feature as a benefit for both non-paying players and gold users.

    It is likely that one spot of the "duke" postion is used to invite players outside borders early on to remove this.

    yeah easily abusable with duke invite. not a big problem.

    th0mm already shared this: There won't be a duke invite anymore. That's why we discuss both changes at once: a lot of overlapping points.

    My concern is Vacation mode + the benefits from workshop prod aswell as how this interacts overall with vacation mode.

    During the vacation mode, the fealty system status is inactive and those days don't count in. I hope this info lessens your concerns?

    It seems like the general consensus is that fealty would basically benefit veteran gold users, metas, and doesn't really help new players.

    No, not at all. As Mitsu pointed out, also non-payers would benefit from the fealty system. They just have to stay within the same kingdom.

    @all: even if I am not quoting you, I am reading your posts. Thank you all for sharing your thoughts and keep your feedback coming. Now is the change to influence this feature :) And all those positive comments help us very much as well. Thank you for liking the feature <3

  • Fealty system is a great way of nerfing ALL GOVERNORS WHO had a leadership who decided to abondon their kingdom and forced governors to look for another team. Also fealty system favours gold players.

    What a joke this is. Extremely unbalanced, unfair proposition.
    Start working on multi abusers punishement first.

    Thank you

  • Why do you think so?

    To me it seems that it will incentivase staying in a kingdom instead of been kingdom jumping.

    I would really like to understand why you feel it will not make the game better.

    Well I think the feature is interesting for sure, but we'll have to test it out out and promote people trying to exploit it to see it's flaws.

    Just disappointed that plus players get a bonus again and again. Why is this needed? DOnt they have enough advantages?

    Perhaps a 25% increase I could understand. Can you also PROMISE that you will never sell 'keep your level or upgrade your fealty level' packages or cards?

  • You let a new player with zero prestige zero experience zero knowledge choose to play king, creates a bad random kingdom, then he finds he can't continue and disbands kingdom

    or he is so bad that governors leaving him

    Then you make fealty system so governors stick to a moron king?

    Personally If I feel my king is not worthy, I will quit that kingdom at any cost. fealty bonus will not change that.

  • Sorry I'm late to the party! A busy few days. As a player I am very curious to see how these changes impact gameplay. As a lot have noted - it would probably dissuade players from 1) joining another Kingdom late game because they lose their bonuses and 2) encouraging players to 'stay true' to a Kingdom because of the bonuses that they impart.

    One feature of gameplay that I see changing dramatically - as some have noted - is the end game. One way to still allow late game merges would be to have attacks on WW's earlier in the game therefore still allowing players to merge Kingdoms before WW level 50 by attacking with their bonus and killing their armies and then joining. If this is something that is trying to limit late game merges I think one additional solution that would be really make that more unlikely would be to not allow Kingdom changing after WW's appear. So - day 111 for x1 and day 44 for x3. I don't see that change impacting any players besides the ones who would engage in the aforementioned strategy.

    The mechanics of the game thus far have allowed the "max" bonus to apply across the board when it comes to defense - so would the defense bonus apply to all troops inside of a players village - or would they apply to a players troops regardless of village? I think this is an important distinction. Because, once again, it would allow late game merges to not really impact defensive governors. It's unlikely that they would receive attacks.

    My last thought (for the moment) is about the order of the bonuses. It's possible to get a workshop bonus on day 4. Very few players are going to be building siege weapons on day 4 in any serious capacity - so I would suggest this rearrangement:
    Level 1 - keep Hero XP bonus starting. I love it. Don't change a thing.
    Level 2 - Culture points. This would also be more appealing to me because then you could have +50 for each level all the way to 10 instead of between level 9 and 10 a 100 point jump. 50, 100, 150, 200, 250, 300, 350, 400, 450. (Also - there is a typo; level 9 says +450 and level 10 says +400).
    Level 3 - Attack bonus. +1, 2, 3, 4, 5, 6, 8, 10
    Level 4 - Defense bonus. +2, 3, 4, 5, 6, 8, 10
    Level 5 - Troop crop consumption kicks in. +1, 2, 3, 4, 5, 6
    Level 6 - Workshop time reduction. +2, 4, 6, 8,

    Catapult benefit time would start to kick in on day 47 for x1 and day 16 for x3. This would line up to when most players are going to start actually dedicating resources to siege weapons in 24 hour queues. Players would still achieve the 10% bonus by the same day of the server. I think that this would just make more sense and be more beneficial to players. It would also allow benefits for defense players to kick in sooner.

  • I also belive cp bonus and workshope time reduce should switch places, the early bonuses are so small (1st month) 3% hero is having no impact on gameplay, -2% workshop no impact poeple dont use workshop that early that these 2 percent make any diffrence, the 50 cunture bonus seems to be "most impactfull" but 1 moth server you have already city pumping 500/day so at least you are sitting on starter village + capitol city thats about 1000 cp/day so its less than 5% during the first months, and the "effective" value of cp given will sharply increase considering later in the game the cp gains via buldings and celebrations massivly outweights fealty bonus. So i dont belive that early bonuses will promote "metas" beoucse of they low impact.

    Consuption bonus: Its all about troop atck/deff/consuption bonus adn later workshop bonus. At first the deffence seems to be buffed much more than the off. Firstly, deff players dont have to rely on expesive units using GB and GS also they can produce units in multiple villages, so they reach crop limit faster ( the amount of crop to unkkep the troops). The top accounts which can build enourmus hammers/deff are also buffed in favour of being deff, using baracks+GB stable + BS + workshop cant outnumber cheap phalxes you can produce in 12 villages in the lategame.

    Troop att vs deff bonus: I also belive deff player are winning. The deff bonus get multiply by walls and water ditch. We can say teuton rammer will destry the wall at the first hit so the value of wall is 0, the water ditch still exist increasing the deff bonus even futher. {1= value of the wall ( you cant multiply by 0) 0.2=value of maz lvl water ditch, 0.1=value of max lvl deff troop bonus }. The equation is 1 x 0.2 x 0.1x 100%=2%. You will gain additional 2% deff power lategame if you deffend treasury, ww or important capitol with max lvl water ditch and max deff troops bonus (another way defff troop bonus get multiply by the water ditch lvl giving edge to deff players). The off players get only 10% unless they use siege then the bonus gets also multiply. 99% of the time siege is used to clean hideouts. Sieging other players is a hard task, your troops are moving slower so your opponent has easy time guessing if you sieging him with all army or just faking with normal atacks. You can fake siege too but its expensive and can be used lategame scenario.To sum up as an off player you will rely more on atacking other players than sieging so your off troops bonus wont get multiply by sieging bonus.

    Attacking is expensive and hardly ever worth in tk meta, becouse of tributes system every vill is close to each other so your can send deff units on time, faking is expensive becouse of spy glasses, also you never fake siges (unless extremly latagame) becouse you have to sacrifice 1k units, we dont have arifacts to substain production of bigger hammers. I dont want to buff even futher, at the moment the game is pretty boring early-midgame, only lategame when ww crushes you hace some action. Most of the time its simcity and farming inactives. Early game cages provide good defence, and midgame water ditch giving pernament 20% bonus to deff, while off players have to "rely on" "unreliable" sieging caused that kingdoms playing turtle strategy simcity>avoid fighting treasuries>launch hammers on ww and i dont want dev to push that strategy even further.

    The workshop bonus is nice at the first glance, the problem is only royals and top tier govs can substain prodution of baracks/gb/stable/gs + workshop 20lvl on top of that the additional 10% you get now. Most off players cant produce 24h/30 days in workshop 20lvl.

    My though process is crop consuption is adventage for deff players, deff players get additinal 2% deff power becouse water ditch multiply, while off players cant benefit that unless sieging but siegeing is unreliable. So we have 12% deff bonus (10 %+ 2% water ditch multiply + walls!!! but they will be destryed by rammer but keep in mind that still this exists) vs 10%off bonus (12% if you siege becouse sieging is multiplying). Off players get workshop buffed but it will effect 1% of off players populatonn (most dedicated who can substain workshop20 lvl production), on top of that i will say top teutons already have good ram production that 1 big teuton rammer will take down wall at the first atackk so the workshop buff wont effect tutons ww rammers (unless he lost all rammers midgame and have to rebuild it, but then the kingdom should have diffrent teutons rammer ready for ww) so the workshop buff only effects rome cata hammer :)

    The patch is little buffed to teutons becouse they can get crazy att power consiering brawery bonus x hero %att bonus x sieging x troop attakc bonus they all multiply, so we will see even more teutons off players,also they will have easier time rebulding ramms after splaing in the walls, although if they didnt splashed their off during midgame the wokshop buffed wont be noticable . This is good side-buff considering how the 2000 outgoing atacks limit hit the tribe.

    All in all i belive the hero exp bonus+ cp production bonus is negligible. The workshop bonus is nice but only 1% off player (roylas and most dedicated govs) can make use of additional training workshop time, maybe we will see a little more rams/catas early game but still most of off players will prefer getting eco going to substain big units prodution midgame. Teutons rammers have already enough rams to take down wall 20lvl to 0 lvl in first hit so the workshop bonus is negligible unless they spash the off and they have to rebuild it for ww spash lategame, but then why is the kingdom relying on only 1 rammer to take down ww wall???, the workshop bonus is nice for rommans ww cata becouse more catas the better. The workshop bonus is ok for ghaul off but why play ghaul off when you have teutons with better att power/time + brawery bonus. TT farming cant outweight brawery lategame . Consuption redtuction bonus gives edge to deff players. Troop att/deff bonus gives edge to deff players becouse EVERY DEFF UNITS can benefit water ditch and the bonus get multiply by it while off players have to rely on normal atacks (unless you are sieging teuton than you have upper hand :)).

  • The devs are pretty conservative about the changes id say fealty is negligible untill 6 lvl when crop consuption kicks and you get some off power to save troops farming hideouts/robbers. The hero and cp bonus is usless you wont notice the exp growth and cp gain by bldings/partis will masivly outweight the fealty cp bonus. People over-value workshop, top off players can make use of the additional 10% time. Most gov player will run 15lvl workshop 24/h instead of 17 lvl because how hard time semi experince player have producing troops. Teutons have already have excessive amount of ramms, if they didnt splash they off they can 20>0 wall of ww already using 1 good teuton off+ brawery. Teutons off have easier time rebulding ramms in midgame after splashing , but kingdom should have 1 strong ww rammer in lategame to take down wall, if 1 teuton took down the wall the rest rammers dont need to have huge ram numbers becouse they are used to make use of brawery bonus to kill as much as deff troops as possible so rome ww cata can demolish your opponent ww. I agree if you play rome ww cata off this workshop buff is nice but majority of off players are tutons becouse of brawery bonus. Crop consuption and troopds deff/off bonus are the most important in this patch and i tried to explain why it favour the deff players

  • "Not a good idea to buff training time and battle stat..buffing these parameters are too rewarding and will likely cause imbalance to the game.

    Replace them to something less rewarding and more PVE in nature, like reduce hero revive time, attack bonus to robbers, slightly more resources for stolen goods etc.

    I can't understand the reason to give players so much advantages by just staying inside a kingdom."

    This is very interesting got so many upvotes, i agree that we giving players so much advantages by just staying inside a kingdom borders. Maybe we should change the sytem so kingdom will unlock Daily Fealty Level Bonuses according the number of tresuries inside kingdom??? We can check stats how many tresuries kingdoms have by the 30th day of server and change according to that aspect. I agree we can make fealty system add these feaures like reduce hero revive time/cost, attack bonus to robbers, slightly more resources for stolen goods, faster/bigger capacity of merchant but i belive the rewards "PVE in nature" are so small that you d ever feel fealty system was introduce thats why the troop power bonus/consuption reduction is needed so will plan you gameplay around it

  • You will gain additional 2% deff power

    Great summery @kajtmen. I think that the TK team is hesitant with some big game mechanics change, rightfully so. They came up with an idea that looks appealing especially to new players, which is great and needed, and at the same time has little to no impact on the game from the veterans perspective in established kingdoms, which is the 2% def bonus. That is a great move imo. Also the 50% bonus for plus account is top tier marketing.

  • If you mean to make the game healthier, remove the 50% extra points from PLUS. Maybe downscale the points needed somewhat (15-20%) to make it possible for everyone within a server, not just metas. Also anyone calling this an exciting new feature- please reconsider how much of an impact this will have on your gameplay; little to none. Any active component like suggested in this thread would make it much more reasonable. As of now, its an extra counter running in the background that grants buffs which you did nothing for other than sit comfortably in your (probably meta sized) kingdom. Thats just not a good design.

    Unknown posted a definition of the term fealty, yet this feature lacks any resemblance of the actual meaning of that. By performing well for the greater good of the kingdom, fealty could be used as a progression&reward system that does add to the overall gameplay experience. By getting benefits for no reason other than not leaving your kingdom, its just another ticking number.