Discussion thread: patch 0.49 treasures on the map

  • Dear players,


    We would like to hear your thoughts and opinions about the new 0.49 update and the treasures shown on the map so please don't hesitate to share them with us in this thread.
    You can find the announcement here and the change log here.


    Kind regards
    Your Travian: Kingdoms Team

    Community Manager
    Travian Kingdoms International

  • I don't understand why you made a new thread when we had so many people already expressing their opinions in http://forum.kingdoms.travian.com/com/showthread.php?t=2969


    But I'm going to repeat my opinion here too: We don't need these messages as they they ruining the scouting concept but bring nothing constructive. The purpose of scouts is already very limited and finding Treasuries is one of their last redeeming qualities to justify their costs.


    The whole "Game Messages" idea should be scraped in my opinion. Both the existing "Player has joined Kingdom" and whatever you exactly plan on adding in 0.49 update. Disabling these is the first thing I do upon finishing the tutorial on any new server.

    The post was edited 1 time, last by Marko ().

  • One step forward, one step back. Thank you for the option to close group chats, those get stupid after a while. But any good from that was undone with showing treasures on map, there are very few people I can find that are in favour of that one...


    Edit: I'll add a little bit more about this frustration. I'll use one of the most common complaints I've seen in the forum, which is the stupid amounts of time people have to devote to collecting tributes. I don't believe that adding a collect all button would be that hard. Making it have multiple options - say collect all tributes, all tributes with treasures, all tributes without treasures, all tribute within border, all tributes within time limit - may be a touch harder, but I still don't think it should be that difficult.


    In the time since I can remember people first raising this is a real issue around gameplay, we've had the re-design of the chat - which hasn't added anything, and the chat wasn't added to the app or the mobile site. We've had field messages, which have been pretty much universally hated. We've had the re-design of the build queue, which was probably the only decent one, offset by a price hike that did more damage. We've now got treasury info on the map, which again seems universally hated. And not to add items like the card game, which is perceived as either a gold grab or another advantage to the whales...


    I generally try to avoid unnecessary cynicism and negativity, but guys, seriously? How about you stop adding stuff that none of your player base thinks is a good idea, nor has it been requested or demanded in any sort of significant manner and actually fix some of the problems that have been raised multiple, multiple times? If you're going to try and change gameplay, maybe rather than doing little fiddly bits that add absolutely nothing - like the card game, field messages, treasure numbers on the map etc - you look at a serious overhaul of the VP mechanics as per any number of the suggestions that have been made, especially in the incentives for combat thread?

    The post was edited 1 time, last by VVV ().

  • Hi again :)

    Why did you decide to display the treasury count of every village? What does it add to the gameplay? Training and using scouts is too hard?


    The high amount of treasures is like an approval for a good king. There will be more battles for treasures, especially in the middle stage of the game so the waiting for the Wonders of the World wouldn't be so long. Additionally kings and their dukes will have to plan strategically whether they want to have many treasures in one village meaning this village will be under heavy attacks and must be properly defended or many villages with a lesser amount of treasures meaning they will have to protect multiple targets and spread their defensive troops between them.
    The scouts are still useful for finding out what the player's defenses are and how many resources you can eventually loot.


    Best regards
    Georgi

    Community Manager
    Travian Kingdoms International

  • There are so many ways to defend treasuries without defending a village, this feature is just a pain in the *** and useless. People in the kingdom know already how many treasuries their king and dukes have and the enemy can simply scout them to have that info. Also from middle game onward every treasury is basically maxed out in large kingdoms so why even bother writting it down?
    Also by looking at rankings, number of villages of a king, number of dukes, and looking at how many active treasuries a kingdom have, by doing some math they can find a really good approximate of how many treasuries there are in each treasury village of that kingdom. This feature is like giving even more free information to noobs.

  • I agree with Georgi. The fact you can see treasures makes it more clear where the treasures are and alliances need to protect the treasure villages more seriously.
    Scouts are still usefull for farming and general offensive planning.

  • There will NOT be any more battles for treasures than there are now. This changes nothing. Think about it. Right now, high level treasuries are usually in the most important villages. You don't need to put the exact amount on the map to tell me that. The gameplay involved does not change either: Either you are able to attack the most important villages of your enemies, or you're not. If you are, aim for treasury and you have the treasures. If you're not, what does it matter if you know the exact amount of treasures in a village? Can't attack it anyway.


    The only thing this changes is if you have a high level treasury in a village that isn't normally defended. This change makes it impossible to hide where the treasures might be so, that tactic won't get used anymore (although I don't really see it used now either since the game isn't currently competitive at all, so nobody's looking for complex tactics or strategies). Either way: The focus remains fully on whether or not you can attack treasury villages, which is pretty much the situation you have now. So how does this encourage more combat? It simply doesn't.


    The current combat incentives - and I'm sure I'll get back to this in future posts - are to attack kings and dukes for treasures. Which means treasury villages only, and then only the treasury in that village. Incentives to destroy people aren't there, have in fact been carefully removed by the devs. While those incentives remain absent, nobody will build rams, catapults or chiefs (typically new players will build maybe 50 rams and 50 cats and 1 chief now), meaning they can't participate in wars. While there are no incentives to build those things, you will NOT see more combat. It's just that simple.


    By the way, I disagree completely with scouts being useless. I use them to find out which villages are defended by default, currently defended, to check what type of player someone is, how they might have built up their account (village type)... People just don't know how to use 'em anymore.


    One more thing: Why are you guys requesting feedback on a thing that is already set in stone anyway? + everything that VVV said.

  • By the way, I disagree completely with scouts being useless. I use them to find out which villages are defended by default, currently defended, to check what type of player someone is, how they might have built up their account (village type)... People just don't know how to use 'em anymore.


    One more thing: Why are you guys requesting feedback on a thing that is already set in stone anyway? + everything that VVV said.

  • Ammanurt


    Just imagine seeing day after day that a king/duke close to you have 5k treasures in the village. Wouldn't that make it very appealing to plan a attack that village? With the current system you have to scout and share that information. It's easily forgotten and targets need to be made more obvious by making notes on those villages.


    Now you see 4k treasures on X village and 1k on Y village. It's much easier to plan a treasure robbery and that makes the midgame more active.

  • It won't happen by the time you have 5k treasuries in one village, all nearby villages are allied, if not well keeping all these treasuries there isnt the best option. People move only for treasuries which is the wrong mentality and attitude people have in this version of travian

  • Ammanurt


    Just imagine seeing day after day that a king/duke close to you have 5k treasures in the village. Wouldn't that make it very appealing to plan a attack that village? With the current system you have to scout and share that information. It's easily forgotten and targets need to be made more obvious by making notes on those villages.


    Now you see 4k treasures on X village and 1k on Y village. It's much easier to plan a treasure robbery and that makes the midgame more active.


    Completely agreed with Mayo. The mindset of people in TK is terrible regarding (organised) warfare. Of course it is, it has been incentivized that way. As proven by iribuya here (whose alliance we're currently slaughtering on COM1 :) ). Sorry, not to be annoying with ad hominem attacks, but it's hard to remember important targets? How about you put the information somewhere? We have lots of lists on our Colony forums detailing all of your accounts, your playstyles, hammer villages, capital/treasury villages, plans on how to destroy you, how to defend against you, you name it. Don't confuse your organisational capabilities with organisational potential and don't try to solve problems that don't exist just to hide incompetence. Sorry, but it always annoys me when people who have been proven not to be any good at the game come posting on the forums as if they know the game and know how to improve it...


    Also, again: If a king close to me has 5k treasures- which you can already see atm - I already have a pretty decent idea of where those treasures are likely to be. It's as appealing to attack those villages now as it would be if I knew the exact amount in the specific villages. On top of that, no other kind of warfare is incentivized. So nothing has actually changed.

  • @ Ammanurt


    Let's not make this personal.


    I think TK is doing the casual players a big favour by making target more obvious. Sure the hardcore alliances that share all information outside the game and have played together for longer times dont need this kind of easy information accesability . But I think travian's biggest goal is to make people that are just randomly put together, work together. Some that can only come online for 1 hour a day should not feel useless.


    When someone starts a server, without any friends, because they want to check out the game. There is no competition killing him/her off by an elite alliance. The goal of TK should be to make organising attacks and defense within kingdoms or alliances more easy for them.


    The ideal picture would be players with 15 villages working together with players that only managed to build up 3 villages by sharing reports and target spotting.

  • Which is why they created kingdoms, a king snd his dukes, train their governors and give them directions on how to improve playing the game and what to do in the time they are online. This is what kingdom is supposed to be, they created an order of things in order to create a better and more suitable environment for every player from the more casual to the hardcore ones.
    Showing treasuries and all new simplifications of the game they did won'the help at all the teamwork of people, it will make it worst. New players will just try to do their things on their own, failing against good players and quitting because they tried, they failed and they were alone.

  • Aww but I love making things personal :(


    I'd argue that the devs aren't doing TK a favour - casual players or otherwise - by making targets more obvious or otherwise dumbing down the game even further. So much has already been done to make this the most facebooky, casual game with no consequences to any actions. Isn't it enough yet? By having a completely casual, non-competitive game you ensure that there's no teamwork necessary at all, between anyone. If you want people to work together even if they've been randomly put together with others, even though not all are as active, put the team through some hardship. That's what ensures teamwork, that's what requires even smaller players to help and be helped.


    Even premade teams are never fully premade. You still need an influx of new players every server that need to be nurtured even if they're smaller or less active. Giving them even more information on the map or whatever will not make anything easier for them. And for players in non-premade teams..Again, how does this help them exactly? I refer to my earlier comments on gameplay regarding treasures/treasuries.


    That ideal picture won't happen in a casual alliance with only casual players, in a casual game. You just get highly active kings with lots of inactives that are used as resource drones, as I'm sure you've seen. That ideal picture happens in the more mature, more capable alliances, where there's good leadership.

  • I don't like this future upgrade at all. If player wont's to see where is treasures he must scout them. You are too easier this game. I think that scouting was one of thinks what bring some activity in governors hands. In last server that I had played not all governors had a army to attack king. But those governors who didn't have big off had a large number of scouts and there was- how to say game fun there basically all could do something for your ally. In such a way governor who have found villages with big amount of treasures he get part of ally discussion and planing part and most of all he get thanks and commendation from ally members for good job. And now you have stolen this opportunity for governors. I think that you tried to improve this game. but I think with this upgrade you make game more boring and dis-attractive.

  • hello all together


    I had read all posts carefully.
    and i agree this new feature wont affect the combats or the gameplay specially for experience players whom they know what they are doing. But for new players it is an advantage and i think that what TG wants, they want more new players participating in the game.
    so i don't see why this feature is annoying to most people, let them try it we are still in Beta guys. If it is annoying as much people complaining about it, then TG will remove it. But if i were TG i'll give it a try at least, when i put my devs on developing this feature it is meaningless to just throw it away. So please guys stop complaining while you didn't even try the feature yet, how can you give a feedback for a thing that you didn't try, so lets try it together and then post our opinions.


    regards

    Red John
    Customer Service Representative & Community Manager
    Travian Kingdoms AE

  • RJ,


    I'll repeat what I said before. It's not so much that it's a fairly pointless exercise. It's that there are so many things that have been called out as problematic, and we keep getting releases with new "functionality" that does precious little to improve gameplay. We've had field messages, the card game, now treasures on the map - yet we're still waiting for chat on app, a better chat (though closing off group chats is a step in the right direction), collect all treasures... It's our opinion that TG is not spending it's dev's time wisely.


    And lastly - there are a lot of people who think that TG's overall strategy here is wrong. If they're going to dumb the game down to try and be a clone of the myriad of mobile games, they're going to be a very, very small fish in a very, very big pond. And they're losing their great strength, which is the nuances that take several servers and time to work out, and to hone your playing style. I've played a few of those casual mobile games, they're fun for a month or two, but eventually, you stop, because there's no nuance, there's no overriding objective, they're aren't multiple servers, no restarting servers to try a new tactic/tribe, yadda, yadda, yadda.


    I've been playing this game for close to ten years precisely because it wasn't a casual mobile game. There is no mobile game that was ever going to keep me for that long.

  • oh i see your point VVV
    and yes you are right, TG and its dev team most work on the problematic things those the community had provide on their feedback, but that is not mean to stop working on improving the game for both experience and new players by adding the new features because as i said earlier the game still work in progress. I nearly sure that TG work on both problematic things and new features simultaneously, i just or here i may say we "as community" need TG to give the highest priority to the current problematic things than the new features.

    Red John
    Customer Service Representative & Community Manager
    Travian Kingdoms AE

  • Putting the treasure counts on the map is not doing anything to make people want to attack. The treasurers can easily be found using your brain and some troops (SCOUTS)


    The scouts are almost useless in this game so you may as well just eliminate them and take away our axes, bow/arrows, spears, swords and all other weapons cause each time you add something useless it takes away from the whole concept of STRATEGIC WAR GAME.


    I think that is what Travian still advertises itself as?? :(