Posts by Killeri

    Server: COM1 2022 May-October 149 days (governor)

    Highest Number of Praetorians alive: 356,468 🛡️ (day 147)

    Praetorians at the end: 340,940

    Defense Points at the end: 269,168

    Secret Society Troops lost in Defense: 87,320


    Mostly troops fed in Treasuries and in World Wonder, own crops as much as I could with hourly crop merchants (not enough).
    24/7 Praetorian training only started at day ~70, up until village growth and celebrations were the main goal.


    The fact that 3x for Kingdoms seems to be these days the more popular choice for players, it might even make sense to balance the game for 3x.
    And let the 1x be the imbalanced version.

    That way for example reducing the cost of Praetorians by that 5-10 resources for every version, might still keep the game simple and aligned across different speeds.

    Yes Mitsu , I think if we would need to make changes for the troop stats only for 3x, reducing the cost of training rather than increasing defense points, might be less bad of the two.
    But that still doesn't sound right to me :/ , as it might be worse to create confusion that way, than just living with the 3x misbalance.

    Because game was originally tried to be balanced for the 1x Travian T4, and then improved for Kingdoms back in ~2015.
    And the improper crop-consumption was a very much a necessity for any 3x Travian, so that people can actually sleep and be 7-10h away from the game.
    Because regular 8h-away on 3x would be same as full 24h away from the 1x game.
    So managing large armies would be very hard without that improper scaling to 3x.

    Agree with your analysis Mitsu , but not sure how to resolve it. Or what is the best way to avoid it.
    Because changing troops stats to be different in x3 compared x1 can be a bit hard, and confusing.

    The issue comes from the imbalance how the stats for troops in 3x speed-servers are scaled:

    • 3x training
    • 2x walking speed
    • 1x crop consumption

    Theoretically the "right" answer would be to increase the crop consumption to also be 3x.
    But many players enjoy the easiness of managing larger armies, meaning it would be very hard to change that.

    Pure support villages are mostly/only useful for offensive players, because defensive players should be ready to train def-troops from every village.
    And for support villages only thing that we care, is their resource and CP production, and marketplace.

    Therefore in addition to resource/crop fields and their buildings to max, we want a high-level Town Hall, to allow keeping faster back to back celebrations for CP generation. If not enough resource for large celebrations, then also need to get the base-CP production to at least ~400 daily-CP. With large celebrations, village's base-CP doesn't really matter.

    Nice sheets, are you able to share the data entry points, so we can make our own sheets? I have them somewhere too, but I cant find it :D

    Hi iribuya , all the field and building costs and stats should be here:
    Travian :: buildings

    I got my values from Travian Kingdoms Wiki | Buildings , but some of them are a bit outdated and incorrect. Will need to redo that myself based on the travian.kirilloid.ru values, that seem to be more correct.

    TL;DR either but I have some technical questions :


    • Why 50 res ?

    • Why aren't you able to keep celebrations at start but high levels of academy ?

    • When using res for level up useless buildings become worth ?

    To be honest, I don't have a good answer to why "50 res = 1 CP" or "200 res = 1 CP". 50 is about the rate of resources for celebrations, and knowing it's beneficial to keep doing celebrations at least sometimes, it must be the minimum value. For 100 or 200 rates are just for reference, because at least to me they seemed to give reasonable results for early game, that felt about right. Most likely the value of CP changes over time, and is different for different play styles, so there isn't one "correct" exchange rate for everyone.

    Early in the game I would do those high Academy levels, in addition to Marketplace and Main Building, to reach first +400 base-CP per village, and later on 2000 base-CP overall as fast as possible. So that Large Celebrations would be as efficient as possible. So I would do both at least early in the game.

    Some building levels are indeed going to be leveled up, even when not needed for anything else than base-CP. For example early in the game Main Building and Marketplace lvl 20 are not needed for their other benefits than cheap base-CP. But you don't want to level the Town Hall for example any higher than lvl 1 for it's base-CP, unless when planning to get faster back to back celebrations.

    Example how to read this with Academy.

    Early in the game even very high levels of Academy are good investments in your villages, even when you don't actually need it to research to unlock any of the more advanced troop types. If you value 200 resources to 1 Culture Point, your upgrade costs would be paid back in full by day 10 even for lvl 11 Academy.

    Later in the game when you can effectively keep back to back celebrations, or just are close to reaching your wanted amount of villages and senators, you are going to be valuing each CP to be around or even less than 50 resources. At that point you no longer want to upgrade Academy in your support villages, unless you want it for certain troop types, or for Town Hall.

    For example lvl 11 Academy with '50 res = 1 CP' exchange rate, is already going to take 50 days before the base-CP increase is going to break-even with the initial cost and increased population and crop consumption. So you might want to leave it not upgraded higher than lvl 10 Academy, and save the resources and crops for something else (more troops).

    TL;DR: When you need to decide if a certain resource field or culture point building should be built before the other (or built at all), choose the one that has a lower break-even point. This means that your investment will return profits faster.


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    Early in the game, you are likely going to be valuing Culture Points more, than late in the game. Which means that early on you might want to be building buildings that might not have any useful utility value on their own, but only increase your base CP creation. Some buildings and levels are better for that, than others. Similarly comparing resource field upgrades to buildings is rather common question early in the game. Late in the game when you might value CP much less than previously, when you already have all the villages you need and want, most of the building levels become unattractive investments outside of their utility value. Some buildings don't have a break-even point, when the increased CP gains are smaller than the increased population and crop consumption.


    Below break-even points for resource fields and buildings can be used for this decision making. Tables list how many days it takes to pay back their initial costs for increasing each field or building level, with different 'Resources to CP' exchange rates. In other words, how long you need to wait until you theoretically have more resources and CP compared to a situation where the investment would have never been done.


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    travian_kingdoms_buildings - Google Drive -> 'Building Prod + CP' tab.

    I like rushing level 10 town hall asap to get large celebrations running as soon as possible. Usually within 2 hours of settling a new village. I ignore pretty much everything else until I get to that point, then I start passively leveling up resource fields until they are maxed since you will already have main building level 10 and enough storage to comfortably get to level 10 resource fields if you want to have space to do large celebrations anyways.

    That is quite bold way to push for CPs!
    But I like it. I've usually only been doing the Small Celebrations, and never really found the playstyle to keep doing the Large Celebrations consistently, but only occasionally. And that's why I've needed to upgrade the base CP buildings.

    Do you think it has been working well for you? And you have been gold-finishing those last levels of Granary and Town Hall, right?

    Added also an intermediate 'Reference 'CP 400 / day' village' goal. It can be reached already much earlier, with much less resources.

    This allows starting to keep small celebrations much earlier, while simultaneously upgrading both the resource production fields, and rest of the culture point buildings. Small celebrations with that 'CP 400 / day' is already instant res/CP efficacy of 50.83, which is more than good enough.

    It still makes sense to reach that 'CP 500 / day' later on, as it increases the efficacy to 40.66, but only after all the resource fields and factories have been maxed out.

    For the very early game, included the most efficient Culture Point Buildings and their max levels, where their 'sum of resources used in 7 days / culture points' stays below 200 resources.

    Let's say this is going to be your 6th or 10th village sometime during the mid-game. What do you want want to finish first? Do you rather build everything evenly up, focus first only on the resource production, or first try to get culture point buildings upgraded?


    • All the buildings and fields that take less than 5 minutes to finish
    • Main Building to lvl-5
    • Everything with less than 30 minutes to finish
    • Main Building to lvl-20
    • Resources to lvl-6
    • Culture buildings to reach 400 CP / day
    • Resources to lvl-10, including resource factories
    • Rest of the culture buildings to reach 500 CP / day
    • OPTIONAL: walls and other defensive upgrades


    Above is my preferred order for Gauls, when I'm going to be boosting and sending resources from other villages. All in all this takes about ~23 days to reach, and majority of the resources need to be boosted from other villages. But after that it can similarly support next support villages 8)


    What's your upgrade order, and what do you want to prioritize differently? :/ I would like to hear and learn from your methods!

    TL;DR: If you are resource-restricted, it's most efficient to send resources and boost your least-developed village. Lower resource field levels (and culture-buildings) are the most efficient investments to increase your resource production. It is for example more efficient to upgrade 4x lvl-5 fields than just 1x lvl-8 field with the same total cost of resources.


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    Early in the game when you only have few villages, you are more likely going to be "resource-restricted" rather than "building-time-restricted". This means that you can't be building in every village around the clock without queues being idle every now and then. Later on you will have enough resources to have back-to-back building queues in all the villages at the same time, and you will therefore want to be expanding all the villages simultaneously. These tables are mostly useful during those early days, and less useful later on in the game.


    Below break-even points for resource fields and buildings can be used as a guidance in addition to Kirilloid's great Resource Development calculator. Tables list how many days it takes to pay back their initial costs fir increasing each field or building level. In other words, how long you need to wait until you theoretically have more resources compared to a situation where the investment would have never been done.


    Practically each higher level increases the production more and more, but also costs even more to build. Therefore it takes more and more days to reach their break-even point. Earlier levels' increased population also plays larger role, for example with Iron Mine to be the least efficient resource field to level up.


    If you have the Gold Resource or Crop Bonus, each of these efficiencies are about ~25% better and therefore faster to reach. Same also holds if you have for example have +25% Oases, and especially for +10-lvl resource fields when you already have the lvl-5 resource buildings in those cities. Meaning that below tables are less useful for cities and especially for capitals, where you for example want to reach as high Croplands levels as possible, almost regardless of their investment costs.


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    That's true Unknown . We don't want to make things equal. But on the other hand it would be nice if for a good WW-defense Spearmen and Phalanxes wouldn't be as dominant as they are right now (I am a Gaul player myself).

    I think the main point from Mitsu was that the balance-differences are different between 1x and 3x servers. And that's something caused by the fact that not everything in 3x servers are 3x. So something that was much more balanced in 1x, isn't anymore so with 3x.

    Personally I think Praetorians and Legionnaires are very valuable troops for casual def-players, even on 3x servers. For them the crop consumption is much bigger benefit than for those high-end players only maximizing the defensive power they can provide for late game. And even if that benefit isn't as large on 3x, it is still beneficial.

    Thanks Mitsu !

    I would have one addition, that makes Romans to have a disadvantage against Gauls and Teutons at the end game. Slow training speed. That is a huge factor also in 1x servers.

    At the end game, as a defensive player you are going to be training as many troops as you can, as fast as you can, from as many villages as you can. And either Praetorians or Legionnaires just can't be trained as quickly as Phalanxes or Spearmen.

    Meaning that in order to reach at least +100k defensive troops, training need to be done from more villages, Smithy and troops need to be upgraded in more villages, and barracks need to be upgraded in more villages. And for all this to be possible, Romans will need produce more culture points in order to gain more villages faster than Gauls.

    Or 24/7 training needs to be started much earlier for WW-defending with Romans compared to Gauls. Which in itself will limit the amount of villages Romans will be able to build and upgrade to needed high levels.

    T5_def-power-balanced_per_time.png

    T5_resources_per_time.png

    I wanted to make some calculations which buildings and levels were the most efficient way to reach 500 Culture Point production per village, so that small celebrations would be as efficient as possible. My suggestion for Gauls is included in the below Spreadsheet tab 'Reference 'CP 500 / day' village'. For an intermediate goal 'Reference 'CP 400 / day' village' can also be used.

    Similarly also all the other buildings and levels and their efficiencies are listed out. They include both the initial cost of building the level, but also the long-term cost of increased population and therefore increased hourly crop-consumption. For example what is the 'cost / CP' at 7-days since building compared to 30-days of producing Culture Points.

    3rd tab compares resource and Culture Point efficiencies for small vs large celebrations.

    4th tab is calculations for Barracks and Smithy levels and upgrades, and especially for Phalanx. I would say those are mostly useful early in the game, and less important by mid-game (when you anyway want to have lvl 20 Smithy and upgrades). But allows you to be as efficient as possible, and for example train phalanxes from two villages with smaller initial investment rather than building lvl 20 Barracks right away only for phalanges.

    travian_kingdoms_buildings - Google Drive

    ps. I deliberately left out the formulas from that export, because I feel like many of you also enjoy Travian when it allows you to do these calculations on your own. Now you can still try yourself and have fun discovering and researching yourself into the numbers behind the game :)

    If someone feels I've focused on the wrong metrics, I would be more than happy to discuss and even argue about the numbers! I personally feel that's the best part of Travian, the constant optimization of numbers <3