Posts by feRaliX

    It seems that people are way more active around here so i throw these ideas under discussion here. The topic started from discussing 6 week servers under General section in the forums.

    Critics
    The general idea of having short term servers with lots of action while demanding low dedication sounds great, but is pretty much impossible to achieve. Whenever you cut troop building- or traveltimes it demands more time online to stay safe or to stay on top if you want to win. With all kind of speical servers arising, night truce, dry servers etc etc they seem like attempts to get more players by making the game more casual(easier to manage). Making the game casual is causing the servers to be filled with massive number of players abandoning the server. People abandon the server in various reasons:



    1) joined to try a new strategy, didnt work out - quit
    2) Got rekt by other players and couldnt rebuild to match his expectations.
    3) ended up in very weak kingdom which had no influence in end game fights so the player had no motivation to keep on playing
    4) off player losing his massive hammer knowing he couldnt rebuild nearly as big and lost interest.
    5) etc etc etc



    If anything, the main goal should be to reduce the number of players giving up on servers as currently we have ~6k players creating accounts and 600-1k actually play it till end. Across all posts there have been some really good ideas, but instead of implementing them on another attempt on speical servers they should be reworked to improve the original Kingdoms game which is 1x 5,5 months. I would've quit long ago if i hadn't the community (meta) around me. I actually find it a great example how Jagex made a massive mistake by taking away PK'ing. People didnt leave because of not being able to PK, (which was possible, only differently) but because of Jagex taking away the reason which kept clans (metas) together. My point is, that whenever i sign in i want to have something to do. If it is taken away (lost army, lost village, fell behind due to lack of time) i will lose interest and that will most likely be the case with many players. Every player wants to feel impactful at every state of the server no matter if they are Kings, Dukes or Govs.



    Suggestions
    To counter the negative effects i described above i'd like to state the general goal of my suggestions - being able to catch up at any point of the game. What i have in mind is that if i join the server at 4th month in current servers i would be useless governor to pretty much any kingdom. Being able to support ww with few k crop/troops is pretty much irrelevant to the outcome. I wouldnt be able to effectively attack or defend anyone, not even nearly being able to defend myself if i end up far from excisting kingdoms. It is obvious that it shouldnt be possible to reach top players after starting 4 months later, but it should be possible to reach a point where you could actually have some impact on the game. My initial thoughts would be to tie the available cp amount to server average. So when i start playing on 4th month i would already have CP slots available which boosts my developement decently. In addition, it sounds extreme, but whenever you fall below average population on the server you would be able to build 3x faster to gain up. In terms of balance it obviously needs some serious math behind it, but i hope you get the idea. Same idea could possibly be applied to troop numbers after reworking the troop management which is my next suggestion.



    As mentioned above, losing big hammer is one of the key factors which turn people inactive or to just play less actively maybe only producing def troops, but not participating in social or teamwork aspects of the game. To make rebuilding possible i suggest to add a new building. Lets call it "hospital" for now. It would allow players to revive/heal ~75% of army over some time, for example 4x faster than building troops with separate que + reduced cost. In that way people who have put in huge effort to build an army wont have to lose it entirely and then rebuild for a month or more before they can consider being useful. that would keep average army size bigger than in current servers. That would lead us to my next thought where people with smaller army than average would be able to build troops 3x faster to gain up on average. That effect would be separate from reviving so the effects don't overlap. Average army sizes would become bigger, but the resource system, mainly the lack of crop would keep the army sizes reasonable. It would allow superactive players to build several hammers if they want or people playing less casual can just build army in one village and still use it in mid game. I find it rather dull that some people spend 5,5 months just to play idle and build up a 250k WW hammer. Having more people with the issue of feeding hammers more often would lead to way more active attacking, as the consiquences wouldn't be too harsh.



    That leads me to my final thought about declaring a winner. In more depth about how VP's are gained. In addition to gaining VP's daily from active treasuries the idea of gaining VP's by destroying and cataing enemy villages would give a nice reason for attacking gov's more often. Same for conquering villages and killing troops. It obviously needs some balancing but the general idea is to give kingdoms various ways to gain VP's not just gathering treasures by building armies for months.



    All in all everything i described would keep the game on 1x speed and for 5,5 months but with way more action and things to do.


    All the ideas are not only mine, i did read the previous posts and tried to gather the best + develop them further so i don't take credit for everything!



    I am very eager to keep developing the thoughs so i encourage discussion! Travian dev team is giving us, the players, unique opporitunity to speak out about making the game better for us, don't hesitate to bring in any ideas. Even if your idea seems silly, someone else might come up with something brilliant just because you said something silly.

    Critics
    The general idea of having short term servers with lots of action while demanding low dedication sounds great, but is pretty much impossible to achieve. Whenever you cut troop building- or traveltimes it demands more time online to stay safe or to stay on top if you want to win. With all kind of speical servers arising, night truce, dry servers etc etc they seem like attempts to get more players by making the game more casual(easier to manage). Making the game casual is causing the servers to be filled with massive number of players abandoning the server. People abandon the server in various reasons:


    1) joined to try a new strategy, didnt work out - quit
    2) Got rekt by other players and couldnt rebuild to match his expectations.
    3) ended up in very weak kingdom which had no influence in end game fights so the player had no motivation to keep on playing
    4) off player losing his massive hammer knowing he couldnt rebuild nearly as big and lost interest.
    5) etc etc etc


    If anything, the main goal should be to reduce the number of players giving up on servers as currently we have ~6k players creating accounts and 600-1k actually play it till end. Across all posts there have been some really good ideas, but instead of implementing them on another attempt on speical servers they should be reworked to improve the original Kingdoms game which is 1x 5,5 months. I would've quit long ago if i hadn't the community (meta) around me. I actually find it a great example how Jagex made a massive mistake by taking away PK'ing. People didnt leave because of not being able to PK, (which was possible, only differently) but because of Jagex taking away the reason which kept clans (metas) together. My point is, that whenever i sign in i want to have something to do. If it is taken away (lost army, lost village, fell behind due to lack of time) i will lose interest and that will most likely be the case with many players. Every player wants to feel impactful at every state of the server no matter if they are Kings, Dukes or Govs.


    Suggestions
    To counter the negative effects i described above i'd like to state the general goal of my suggestions - being able to catch up at any point of the game. What i have in mind is that if i join the server at 4th month in current servers i would be useless governor to pretty much any kingdom. Being able to support ww with few k crop/troops is pretty much irrelevant to the outcome. I wouldnt be able to effectively attack or defend anyone, not even nearly being able to defend myself if i end up far from excisting kingdoms. It is obvious that it shouldnt be possible to reach top players after starting 4 months later, but it should be possible to reach a point where you could actually have some impact on the game. My initial thoughts would be to tie the available cp amount to server average. So when i start playing on 4th month i would already have CP slots available which boosts my developement decently. In addition, it sounds extreme, but whenever you fall below average population on the server you would be able to build 3x faster to gain up. In terms of balance it obviously needs some serious math behind it, but i hope you get the idea. Same idea could possibly be applied to troop numbers after reworking the troop management which is my next suggestion.


    As mentioned above, losing big hammer is one of the key factors which turn people inactive or to just play less actively maybe only producing def troops, but not participating in social or teamwork aspects of the game. To make rebuilding possible i suggest to add a new building. Lets call it "hospital" for now. It would allow players to revive/heal ~75% of army over some time, for example 4x faster than building troops with separate que + reduced cost. In that way people who have put in huge effort to build an army wont have to lose it entirely and then rebuild for a month or more before they can consider being useful. that would keep average army size bigger than in current servers. That would lead us to my next thought where people with smaller army than average would be able to build troops 3x faster to gain up on average. That effect would be separate from reviving so the effects don't overlap. Average army sizes would become bigger, but the resource system, mainly the lack of crop would keep the army sizes reasonable. It would allow superactive players to build several hammers if they want or people playing less casual can just build army in one village and still use it in mid game. I find it rather dull that some people spend 5,5 months just to play idle and build up a 250k WW hammer. Having more people with the issue of feeding hammers more often would lead to way more active attacking, as the consiquences wouldn't be too harsh.


    That leads me to my final thought about declaring a winner. In more depth about how VP's are gained. In addition to gaining VP's daily from active treasuries the idea of gaining VP's by destroying and cataing enemy villages would give a nice reason for attacking gov's more often. Same for conquering villages and killing troops. It obviously needs some balancing but the general idea is to give kingdoms various ways to gain VP's not just gathering treasures by building armies for months.


    All in all everything i described would keep the game on 1x speed and for 5,5 months but with way more action and things to do. All the ideas i discussed could work perfectly in 6week rounds too so getting to the main topic -

    6 week servers:
    only thing i would change is that WW's could be built as high as you get, but the game would still end in exactly 6 weeks. So the owner of highes level WW would just gain max bonus. And for the start of the server with 6c fully built CITY with 0 CP's. So there would still be race for the 15c, as you can focus on building troops or gathering res for celebs for fast CP's. Another thing i suggest is that Wall level would start with 0 to make attacking with smaller armies easier in the start.


    All the ideas are not only mine, i did read the previous posts and tried to gather the best + develop them further so i don't take credit for everything!


    I am very eager to keep developing the thoughs so i encourage discussion! Travian dev team is giving us, the players, unique opporitunity to speak out about making the game better for us, don't hesitate to bring in any ideas. Even if your idea seems silly, someone else might come up with something brilliant just because you said something silly.

    Weird since as far as i'm concerned everyone wants to be part of a meta when it's winning. Now suddenly "most" are against it. I hope that developers don't get carried away with the "anti-meta" revolution, since staying in the community is a huge factor which keeps players playing the game for years. Maybe instead of trying to tear metas apart you implement changes that will bring equality between big and small groups of players. Unions doesn't, we can get everyone in the kingdom with just 1 village and still have 100 active players working for victory. An idea would be to implement same rules of +/- % attack power which is used currently for big population players attacking smaller players. So If a huge Meta kingdom player would attack a smaller kingdom governor they would be affected with -x% attack power for his army and same if small kingdom players attacks bigger. etc. Obviously the effect shouldn't be too overpowered but it would make it more reasonable for small kingdoms to defend themselves against bigger ones.

    As a player who farms a lot it is a serious headache to monitor your real outgoing attacks and incoming reinforcements in your rally point. So simply categorizing them by raid/attack/siege would be very helpful in getting the information you really need. Same for troops returning from farmlist attacks. A way to do it would be to have totally separate incoming/outgoing movement information if you use farmlists to send them.


    one really helpful feature would be the ability to see the total amount of resources your returning troops would bring in as you could plan ahead how much free space you need in your warehouse if you need to be absent for few hours/night. Same goes for tributes for kings/dukes.

    Actually as far as a King goes, if you have active players you do very well. Get cursed with an inactive bunch and you are in trouble. I'm guessing that this change will only mean that the Kings of the best alliances are not so overwhelming - won't make much difference lower down the scale where being a King already sucksI

    I agree as that further proves the need of boosting King spot.

    Although getting 2 instant duke spots in the beginning will work as a boost for the king in very early stage. That will definitely balance the early game for king compared to govs/dukes who get to sell stolen goods + robber hideouts.


    But i really started to think about the issue with kings hero leveling as it's only natural way of gaining xp is quests or adventures which don't get your hero levels past lvl 15? :D or like.. it takes unnaturally long time speically compared to govs/dukes farming robber camps and hideouts. I believe what agony full def playing kings must feel. maybe there should be robber hideouts for king aswell. King would be able to level up his hero + gain stolen goods as well. In contrast to keep the balance kings hideouts could be like +20% stronger for example.


    Just my initial thoughts. :)

    I have the same thought as @Gillies#EN . Kings have WAY LESS crop compared to any other member in the kingdom due to not being able to sell stolen goods which makes duke slots clearly the strongest position in game as you get tributes + you can attack robbers and sell stolen goods. Your hero gets to level up aswell as a duke which is hard to do on king account unless you are very active off player which is also not so easy as a king because you have to have some sitting defense and it takes a toll on crop management yet again. The extra res king is getting from dukes as tributes is not compensating for the need of crop. For example in current com6 im overflowing resources beyond belief and literally dumping it to random nearby players just to avoid wasting it.

    no no no, that is not what I meant. I just meant when you finally built up your crop fields, that cost 50% more than on an usual round and cannot be finished immediately, you get as much crop production as usual with them. IDK why, but I think some players assumed, the crop production will also be reduced. That is not true and that is what I wanted to clarify.
    With regenerating I meant in a figurative perspective: First, there is a dry season and it is really hard for you all to till your fields, and then when you were successful, you get the same amount to harvest.


    Is it now more clear?

    thankyou for clearing it out! :)

    1 more addition because some may have the wrong impression:


    Even though the crop field cannot be finished immediately and cost more to level up, they will be regenerated then and produce as much crop as on a normal round. It is just harder to get there.

    Whoa that's one hell of a piece of information unclarified so far :D So its probably a stupid question now but to get it 100% right. If i have my crop field on lvl 15.. and a villain catas it down, i dont have to waste more res to get it up to 15 as it will regenerate itself to 15 automatically? how long does it take and does it take a construction slot for that?

    #GoldWhalingArtworksFTW


    Yeah, people without gold will have an harder time follow the simming of gold users.


    Having a 15C is actually a really bad idea, it's not worth investing resources into it, it's a lot better to have a high field 6C capital, from which you can train a lot more troops faster and be able to deploy them every week or so and rebuild them fast. The crop of a 15C being halved and the cost being 150% it's not worth the investment after lvl 13/14, even before probably. And no there wouldn't be big hammers beyond 100k, unless the guy has 30 people giving him crop 24/7, 100k to sustain in this conditions is really really hard imo.

    I'm tempted to prove you wrong and make a 150k army :D as Knights will fight for the victory of upcoming Com6 i get the perfect sample to try it out. Btw, the crop production generated by treasures will be a lot more valuable now and it will actually be easier to manage crop as a king.

    I agree to Mayo's thoughts about Axes > Clubs in the long run. For the first time i feel like being an effective roman takes equal amount of effort as other tribes. Yes simming becomes important and Romans obviously excell in that thanks to both, village and res construction slots, but for the first time romans have an useful perk that compared to other tribes is an ACTUAL PERK. So far everyone with a little bit of gold, even if its from good auction work could simply keep up with romans. Then again i really doubt it is fair in that kind of server because rather being a cosmetic perk it is an actually insane advantage compared to other tribes.


    Also, as Mayo pointed out with axes > clubs, any unit with highest dmg / crop consumption ratio becomes way more valuable and then again ROMANS are undoubtedly best in that matter aswell as they can produce most att power/hr. As a roman player im obviously happy to have my favorite tribe boosted but has the dev team overdone it this time?



    Also out of Curtain post i generated an idea about the treasure system. In the late-mid to late game kings and dukes are overflowing treasures a lot. What if the treasures would "spill" to nearby villages around the treasury making them a more worthy target if attacking the treasury seems to big of a bite. Ofcourse it raises balance questions but i think it might be pretty good in concept as you cant stack up 20k treasures in one village behind 50k standing def wall but you rather need mobile army for defending your gov's aswell. That might make the game a little more appealing for smaller group of players aswell. As a blue dream i have always wanted to see a server where 7 different rather equal kingdoms battle it out while each has their own WW. Com5 leaderboard - something like this should never happen as it is booring as hell.