It's not possible if I remember correctly
Another thing to consider is that a EC + Imp army make maximum use of Bandages. So if you are a heavy gold spender and Duke/King .. EC + Imp may be a viable option for continuous attacks... even if your activity in terms of raiding is not good. One should have in mind that a poor raider usually reach the maximum upkeep they can afford rather quickly as Teuton .. so for none-farmers and non-King/Duke Romans are a venue for reaching a rather strong OFF army.
If you check the wiki 3 EI.s will get +45 ATK +45 DEF from the weapon, meanwhile 2 EC-s will get +40/+40 that is what I meant as a horde bonus. That might seem insignificant but quickly piles up.
Look at it this way. 27/24, 36/32, 45/40 are all 1.125, meaning EI-s get 12.5% more increase from hero weapon. This is even more true during the early game when Romans dont have enough resources to raise the Horse Drinking Pool to max level.
Aha, I thought you meant the "Size Bonus" when writing "Horde Bonus". My bad.
But still, even when accounting for the Hero Weapon ECs have about 12% larger Atk/time than EIs. So even the extra buff from Hero Weapon EIs gets compared to ECs do not help them to get better than ECs in terms of atk/time.
First: I didn't check your numbers. Whether they're correct or not is irrelevant, because you're asking the wrong questions. It is completely irrelevant, whether EC are better than clubs in terms of any offensive point. You do not have the decision between EC and clubs. You have the decision between Imperian + EC + Ram vs. Club + TR + Ram.
- Roman EC hammers (with that I mean Imperian + EC + Ram - this will count for analogue cases in the following aswell) are the second best hammers in the game, in terms of attack force per time. And attack force per time is the one single stat, that is relevant for hammers in most cases. You want to train hammers quickly, because unlike defense you can't put two hammers together to fight as one.
- There may be an exception for WW hammers, their supply might be hard, so you might want to look at supply aswell, but wait, roman EC hammers excel at fighting strength per crop consume, being the best hammer in the game in this term.
- That one does not build EC as defense unit should be crystal clear. I will not explain in depth why, it's just obvious, they suck at deff. But so do most offensive units. EC just don't suck completely as def, so some people build them as def, whyever.
- You also don't really want to farm with horses if there are so many farm spikers around, like I heared it in com to be the case. One could opt into training EI in a support village for farming only, but that's another topic. So their carry capacity doesn't matter that much. Maybe a bit, if one is taking the risk of being spiked, but farming with Imps should be better there. Can't speak from too much experience here though, I always opted into either a support village with farm-EI or into a tertiary off with EI (EI's attack force per time is only a few percent below EC's, so it felt okay-ish to do so for a tertiary).
- Troop speed from off units is mostly irrelevant, you usually send your rams with them. Maybe if you want to bash clubs or a clubhammer you send EC only, but that's ... rare. But yes, that point is somewhat valid, EC's speed is bad.
- Resource costs don't matter too much aswell, EC off costs roughly 8% more than an EI off, but that's only around 2k resources per hour. You will be able to afford this anyway, also your hammer's supply will quickly cost way more than it's production anyway.
EC hammers excel at the one important off stat, and this is what counts, which make them a very good off unit. Other stats are ... interesting to read, but compared to attack force per time kinda irrelevant. Especially for the main hammer, like I mentioned, for a secondary or tertiary hammer one can opt into EI for farming.
By the way: You CANNOT make ANY conclusions without HDT. HDT is THE building for romans, if you train roman off, you ALWAYS have one. Calculating without one is useless. Also, calculating with level 0 units is nonsense, for the very same reason. You always upgrade your hammer to level 20.
Great post. Cover it all. Except maybe that EIs makes the best Ghost Hammer in the game. This balance between movement speed and atk/time is great.
you are right but when calculating with the hero weapon it is better to have 3 EI than 2 EC
Better in what way? What I meant there was just that the "Horde/Size Bonus" does not have anything to do with the number of attack units. Hence the choice of 3 EI vs. 2 EC is not affected by that. I think the most useful way to this about the EI vs. EC comparison is this:
EI's are better in: Atk/Cost (including crop upkeep), More suitable for Ghost hammers due to their speed, Better at farming due to speed and capacity.
EC's are better in: Atk/Production time ... and having #1 Atk/Production time in the game makes them a really Great OFF unit.
You must have made some error in your calculation. ECs have the highest Atk/(training time) in the game. Ye, they even beat clubs.
Also, the size bonus does not apply to the number of units, but rather the total Attack power of your OFF army.. so its not correct that you rather want 3 EIs than 2 ECs to get advantage of a ”Horde Bonus”.
Yes ECs are expensive, but if you can afford it you can enjoy training ECs with the knowledge of that you are training the unit with the highest atk/time in the game.
One more thing that should be considered regarding this proposal.
Not every location will now be viable as a a good 15C capital. Oases Bonus will still be a key determinant when deciding were to place your capital and start increasing the number of Farmlands. So there will still be contested locations on the map ( Sheila ).
Thanks for sharing @Starx !
I still wonder though if there are some kind of "spill-over" mechanic that pushed some people choosing a certain quadrant over to the adjacent quadrant if the one they choose is to "full". This is at least what I remember happening on one server to the team I was in.
CODEX will be there. We are a small team of friends (Mainly North/West Europeans and a couple from Saudi Arabia) .. you can PM us in game if you are looking to play in a smaller team with experiences players.
Your tests confirm what Be2-e4 is saying.
And when you select North, you can end in all Northern places:
We did many tests last year choosing 'East' and we ended up in East (area 50/0), North East (+/+/ above ww 50/0) and South East (+/- below ww 50/0).
No mate. Be2 wrote "North means basically "more in the positive y direction than in any x direction". This is not what I'm saying. What I'm saying is completely different.
And you are saying: "And when you select North, you can end in all Northern places:" .... well yes this is what I'm saying. But the argument here is about where the North is. And to this point I wanted to prove you wrong.
you also say: "We did many tests last year choosing 'East' and we ended up in East (area 50/0)" ... some times you will end up here according to my theory. But according to my experience this is still the "theoretical south". BUT, if you did in fact choose East and got placed in (+ X/- Y) .. then I am wrong I guess. According to my experience you should never get -Y selecting East.
Robbel & Be2-e4 . My experience differs from what you are saying. Each time I have selected North I end up towards the -50/0 WW .. either a little bit or a lot to either the "left" or "right of the line drawn between the -50/0 and the 50/0 WW. Similarly, when selecting south I have in the past always ended up towards the 50/0 WW. So my conclusion was that the North/South axis was between these 2 WWs.
Just to double check my past experiences I registered on COM4 and COM5 just now. I selected North. Here are the results.
My conclusion: (in terms of [Xcoord / Ycoord])
North: [ Negative / No Restriction]
South: [ Positive / No Restriction]
West: [ No Restriction / Negative ]
East: [ No Restriction / Positive ]
This means that you are placed in a "Half" of the map.
Sheila have started a Vote in the thread: [discussion] 15cropper – your feedback is needed
Since this thread now is closed I make this new thread to allow us to ask a few questions.
To kick it off, here are my questions.
a) What is a main village? Do you mean a capital?
b) Assuming that you mean main = capital .... what the **** is going on? Obviously you cannot remove the option of making your 15C your capital? .... I'm speechless.
Sorry for appearing as an annoying complainer attempting to back-seat drive.. its your game. But don't you see that removing the option of making a cropper your capital removes 90% value of a cropper? You have previously stood your ground saying that 15C's should be something rare and highly contested... this new idea goes directly against this statement. I'm also kind of confused to why you choose to name it "main" instead of capital, and why you closed the thread. Anyway, speaking out of frustration, please excuse me.
Thank you again for the valuable feedback and lively discussion. We evaluated all your feedback internally in a couple of brainstorming sessions and meetings.
This is our conclusion by now:
If we will go further with this concept, we already decided on reducing the PvE approach and on keeping some empty 15c fields on the map.
We will close this discussion because your feedback changed the concept completely. It makes more sense to discuss the new iteration in a new thread as soon as it has matured more.
For now, we only need you to answer one last question. Help us by taking part in the poll on the left.
Some of you already addressed the topic of having the 15c as main village. There are some good reasons for handling them like WW villages and forbid them to be main villages. On the other hand, that might be too harsh of a limitation for players.
I wish you a nice weekend and have fun playing,
I recently noticed that the Avatar displayed on the forum "lags" behind what is selected in game. I then tried to used the Gravatar option under Avatar Management here on the forum. I made an account on Gravatar and uploaded an image. The Gravatar image is shown on the Avatar Management here on the forum, but the avatar does not change elsewhere on the forum. Does anyone have a solution to this?
Thanks in advance.
There is no reason for the delay because this can't actually be called 'delay' at all. The announcements are being made as soon as the dates for the next servers are determined. In order for us to announce the servers earlier, they need to be planned and decided on earlier which involves a lot of people in the HQ and is not as easy as it sounds to improve this process and speed it up. We're giving you as much updates on this as possible, but at the time there is no further information we have to share.
Ok, thanks again. But what I think we meant with delay was not the Delay of Announcement .. but rather the Delay of "determining" the launch dates of the next servers, and subsequently handing this information over to the people responsible of Announcing the decision. But it seems kind of odd that the people at HQ would at this point in time just shrug their shoulders saying "I don't know...." in response to someone asking "Hey, what about these COM1, COM6, and COM2 servers? .. " .. I mean, what can outsiders like us deduct from the delay of the "decision" other the speculations of short term business strategy or, alternatively, some sort of neglect.
(I posted this before seeing BridgetB 's post .. which really clarified the situation I think. Thanks a lot.)
Hey there Scorox
I can assure you that this is not the case and the team is in no way delaying announcements on purpose. We're posting them as soon as the dates have been decided on and are working to do that even faster. Your feedback is appreciated and was already forwarded to the responsible people
Georgi thanks for the fast reply. But, if you can assure us that the announcement is not delayed on purpose... then the only conclusion one can come to is that you know the reason for the delay, which if not being on purpose has to be caused by some unintended or unforeseen event. I'm sorry if I jumped the guns here, hopefully no one in your team have gone seriously ill or something like that. Anyway, sorry for bothering you with this... it all just seem so without any update on the situation.
unfortunately we don't have any dates for February yet but I'll let you know as soon as information becomes available. We know that you'd like to have the upcoming worlds lists earlier and our team is still working to improve the process and make it happen
Georgi I don't want to the the guy spreading negativity around .. but can you please try to speak some sense into your Business Department on the behalf of us loyal fans of the game? It makes no sense to delay the announcement of the dates of launch in this way. The only explanation we as customers can see is that the Business side of this great game is trying to eat its own tail, trying to push players to get impatient and buy some gold on Speed and Local servers before you announce the COMx1 server(s). It's kind of humiliating to us players if this is indeed the case.
It's not smart. Then they are taking their player base as being fools. That's not the way to build customer loyalty.
Would be "funny" if they announce the COMx1 server(s) right after people have begun transferring their gold to the local and speed server.
from his principles a brave warrior had gone astray..
I would like to chip regarding the whole "only clays, crops and forests" thing. I would just enable them all purely because it's better balance otherwise the capital meta will just be to settle a 3 iron field site for maximum gains.
Yes, maybe that is the better option. Thanks Curtain .Curtain wrote:
Also I don't think the field revert is needed if the capital changes (be it because of attack or because of you switching it). You can pretty trivially price out the "I will make 2 croppers" option from players
Yes, you are most likely correct here too.