Can you please quote the question when you answered?
It's a bit hard to know where the questions is from.
Posts by Revolution
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The thing is, if you play full offense, the opponent have to think about those things you said too.
So if an alliance of 50+ strong players who have the largest offensive capability on the server state in public that they will respond to any approaching, even scouting with full scale attack, targeting all resource and crop fields (no need to target buildings), the would be attacker will have to think about this. That is the form of defense the full offensive approach represents, a threat of stronger counter attack than your attack.
So, when planning to even scout an alliance like that, you have to think about the consequenses. As in, do you want to lose up to 80% of the resource production you or your alliance have and most likely around 1/3 of your troops + face starvation.
If you are in position to do so, you can even state that the retaliation will be used against everyone in the alliance of the player who scout, raid or attack any of the alliances villages or those under its "protection". This way the opposing Kings might be very clear to their vassals, to never scout that alliance. So when you even scout to notice that they have "no defenses", you will be struck bad as a response.
If you would be amassing defensive troops, you would not have that capablity. You only have it because others make part defense part attack, and you go full offense as an alliance. You of course should secure the best farms to raid more, and grow more. You have better capabilities for that if you play strong offense vs defensive or balanced play.
So you use the threat of your counter invasion as a defense.
This is probably a strategy no one uses, or have used before to that extent. So you really do not know how that would go.
To some extent, every large alliance uses a threat of their counter attack as a defense. Even the balanced or defensive types. The weight of the threat however is different if you use your resources on offense.
The ability to Fake Attacks makes this even stronger. Even the opponent uses heavy Scouting and you wont, they wont know what or how its going to happen and you are the one who knows it instead. You can also either hit the capitals with strong forces or leave them all under fake attacks, as the defenses will probably pile up on these cities. This way the smaller armies that you have plenty, that are made instead of defensive armies, will cause havoc on smaller settlements, and sometimes utterly destroy them. Or target one capital with strong force, and leave others under Fake Attacks to give a message, that capitals are not safe, and to force the defensive troops to pile on these locations. Lets say an alliance that had around 500 villages and is hit so that either 450 of them lose all production, or are destroyed, leaving 50 player alliance with 49 cities (50 capitals minus one). They cannot win anymore. Might be you cannot either, but you probably still fare better than them. So the question is, do you really want to Scout ?
If your alliance is not one of the biggest in the server, you cannot hold this policy. Its way harder to do this alone, but a large group of strong people can easily do this, or a similar thing.
And of course, if someone wants to join playing defensively in such an alliance, accepting it would help to grow the alliance in power, but to convince that person to produce attacking and raiding armies instead would benefit it more. A Scouting player would probably be more benefical than a defensive one, but if you think about it, those scouting armies could also be attack armies too which means, more potential for destroyed resource fields or crops for the opponent. It really does not matter where the opponent have its defenses that much, as you hit all but capitals and the scouting and moving the defensive armies is another mind game you do not have to be part of if you do not want to. The defensive troops you scout might as well not be there when your armies arrive, so better that there are more armies that do than not. Alliances probably invest heavily on protecting their villages from Scouting, especially the ones that matter so, you can just let them and have more attacking troops instead for their to worry about. You can still use scouts as minor squads for raiding and general information.
PS. Another Idea: If 2 server would start at the exact same time, the End Game could be the two servers battling it out, and only the winning server would "win" and the winning players would be the top of the winning server.
PS 2. I do not have to research a game involving military strategy much, as i have a lot of experience in this. The game i usually play is Steel Panthers. So building armies and using your "points" efficiently is known to me. It is a game where you choose an army with same point value than your opponent, trying to evaluate what your opponent will do, and then deploy that army and do a battle as turn based military simulation. One thing i have learned, that min maxing your resources and just guessing with pure instinct is way more efficient with a given point limit than actually investing on information gain or similar means. Also, having more brute force almost always wins, especially if you know how to use it. There are also many mind games you can just ignore. But in Steel Panthers, the advantage is strongly in defensive positions, so the best attack is to advance fast and establish the defensive position as far as possible in the same time than flanking and controlling your opponents movement with artillery. To have more assets for this is in my opinion always better than specialized and expensive approach with less units. This is the mind set i think also Travian with, but in Travian the stance is different: Defend with Offense when in Steel Panters it is to make offense with defense. In setting like Travian that would probably mean you encircle a city and make a blockade to starve it out, but the game mechanics wont allow that.
Hello Istonius
I think you are a bit off topic.
This is a thread talking about improving travian kingdom , not creating travian 2 or games that does not exist.
If you do want to give suggestion, I would suggest you to play a few round of servers first before giving ideas.
I doubt if you ever played this game for once from what you've commented
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If I was TK CEO
1. Fix camps
a. Attack only, with hero only
b. Make camps spawn on more tiles (out outside kingdom for example)
c. Have camps spawn when kingdom is most active or have a countdown timer2. Harsher gamerule enforcements and security
a. Only double verified accounts can have or be sitter/dual
b. Lobby name should always be visible ingame
c. Punishments should stick to the account and with new abuse on different servers, the previous servers where banned where given should be taken into the new punishment.
d. No prestige accounts can't be sitter/dual or be raided for more then 1 hour of production by anyone
3. Gold balancing
a. Instabuild/Instatrade/npc should be limited per day. 24h build-speed-boost per village per day, 24h instatrade-time per day for full account, max 3x per day npc
b. Gold at the end of server should be transferrable even if you didn't buy gold (yes this would make goldfarming possible, but only if you finish the server, not if you delete.
c. First 24 hours no npc/instabuild/instatrade
d. Make hero-weapons that are very popular give a weaker bonus to units
e. Give out more natar horn at the start in adventures
f. Have a big artwork that releases at T3 to give 3x as much cp as regular artwork
4. Communication and information
a. Give royals more option to edit/delete message threads
b. Remove chat on bottom as option
c. Fix the damn pop-up chat message if you didn't read it
d. Give option to have secret society add colours to map
e. Have a more open-planning of new server. We should know 1 year in advance com2 start on october 12th or whatever for example and have it return on the same timeschedule.
5. Seasonal play
a. Every 3 months a new seasonal server with 2x speed start on a yearly rotation.
b. These have different themes. For example, pick one: BirthdayBash, Dryseason, No-Gold server, No wonder server, No kingdom unification and max 40 members in kingdom, Walking troops eat 2x crop, but can carry home 50% more and cranny sizes are trippled.
c. You can't buy gold in seasons, but you have a seasonal-pass that costs around 350 gold per month. In seasonal server you get all plus and resource bonus and 100 gold per week to spend on what you like.
tl;dr. Lots to do to improve this game and it's player retention.
With 1, I still don't understand why so many players want to have camp to attack with hero only. It's not a bug, it's a feature. There is no bug with that. And it's totally fine. Active players are rewarded with more camps (other than tribe balance where teuton is hard to get camp because of slow units). Camp spot design is more of a kingdom planning. I'm not sure why you want to spawn camp outside border, which doesn't make a lot of sense. I'm fine with a countdown though.
With 3, you're basically asking travian to reduce their profit on this game. Travian is always a pay to win game. I don't think they will change the nature of this game...
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Why would you want to change the camps to allow to be taken with hero only?
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Hi Unknown
I believed you should really post info about the server before opening such a thread.
I'm not sure what you would expect the community to discuss without any basic information about the server
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So, if I use your example. If 20 cap/treasuries are under attack, you are able to cover 10 of them? And you say offense outscales defense? Of course you protect governors, especially huge WW hammers, but you also cover your huge treasuries, thats what I am trying to say. I am not talking about all treasuries, but only huge ones which can hold maybe 40k treasures. Have you ever let them undefended? Naturally, lets just ignore the very end game, as the last couple days are different and the priorities shift heavily.
Also, I know a friend who has a friend who does this, is without a doubt a top argument.
I don't understand.
So how would the proposal in this topic improve the situation here?
If treasuries can't be taken away, more def would stack in active treasury.
The proposal here i see is to only leave more governors undefended.
I don't think it's possible to defend 10 govs. But defending like 5 is kinda do-able.
And that's what normally you need to defend.
Tired of arguing such kind of thing, as no matter how many discussion there is, admin wouldn't change anything at all.
They would just say they listen to your voice, and that's all they gonna do.
So it's pretty meaningless to discuss no matter what the conclusion are.
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We do have times when we don't defend treasuries.
Usually we would cover at least half of the governors who are under attack.
I know some russian team also don't defend treasuries that much. They even protect governors more than the treasuries.
Never put some assumption that you do on others.
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Lemme just reply your point one by one.
1. You're supposed to hit all treasury when you have ops. There won't be enough active treasuries for a kingdom to transfer treasuries. Of course there can be hidden treasuries. But they will be unhidden once the mega treasuries are destroyed. In terms of saying there's not enough firepower, it's either the big kingdom have way too many players, or the other team has too little. No matter how you change the game mechanics, big kingdom wins, which makes sense i think. But generally, if the number of players aren't having a huge gap, offence should still have advantages. You simply can't defend every single treasuries and capitals. If there's some meta kingdom there, I would assume others would cooperate together against the big one? There won't be lack of firepower, unless the player sucks.
2. Big kingdom wins. I mean that's pretty fair. And that doesn't seem to relate to the topic. On top of that, how can small team survive if big kingdom attack small kingdom's treasury when they can't even move their treasuries away?
3. I don't see how changing the mechanics would protect better for the govs. For saying gov's capital not protected, it's more like your kingdom decision's issue. We (LIHKG) always tries to protect governors. not only treasury. So maybe you should join a better kingdom.
Attached the result of one of the most intense speed server in the past two years. Big meta with the most treasuries and players doesn't necessary win the game.
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Unless you have access to def of 33% of the server, lol. (As 33% of the server plays in the same meta, like current com1x3n)
That's probably not related to the topic.
Any kingdom who got 33% player in a server would win anyway, no matter how you change the mechanics of the game.
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I want to hear, where you see balance now, please give me examples. I'll give you mine, how I see balance now.
- Winner of the round is kingdom with most VP. Active treasures generating VP.
- Main source of the treasures are robber hideouts and robber camps. With more population in the kingdom and wings you get more of them, so also more treasures.
- Thats mean more people in the kingdom and wings = more VP, passively, without any strategy and activity.
- Treasures and VP can't be won by fighting from the organised kingdoms, because they are hide them, when they are under attack.
- No need for a fight between players and kingdoms, it doesn't help you to achieve the win.
- Final verdict of the balance now = have most accounts in the main kingdom and wings to farm robber hideouts a camps, play simcity for the most time of the server and build everywhere defense for the WW, then win. Everything else is waste of time and resources, if you want to achieve win.
When you can fight for the treasures, it will bring many action and fun to the game for the whole game round. Its true, that will be harder to defend treasuries, especially later when kingdom have more and more of them, but on the other side, everyone will be the same, so you can lose the treasures, but you can also get them by fighting. There will be not only one strategy in the game.
If defending treasuries were really too complicated, active treasuries could get a bonus feature to make it harder to fake, for example, by improving the function of the rally point to detect fakes by 5% for each level of the treasury built, the treasury at lvl 20 would thus improve the function of the rally point by 100%. The large treasury would therefore be more difficult to fake, it would cost the enemy many more units.
Try playing in a decent server for a round.
You would lose badly if you just defend mega treasuries.
And as qwr said above, there's a lot of ways to force other kingdom to clear treasuries.
It doesn't really make sense to even make defence harder than now.
Offence outscale defence from the start of the server till the end.
If some decent ops is made on a kingdom, like 20 target at a time, if no scouting is performed, it is close to impossible to defend correctly.
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Have a travian management team that would really try to fix the game/fix bug.
There's way too many issues with this game.
And the travian team doesn't seem to care to try improving the game.
All they want is to use minimal resources to maintain the game.
If the company is not willing to improve the game, better close the server of travian kingdom.
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e)Dukes and kings. Very little choice for defensive nobles here, its teuton and teuton only. First of all, defense bonus of the wall really matters. Second, upgraded paladins make really good farming troops and pay for themselves, where as gaul cavalry does not.
I mean, you'll not try to defend a treasury simply because the king/duke is Teuton right?
I'm not saying Teuton wall is weak. I'm just saying you'll probably defend based on your information to guess where the enemy is attacking, instead of just because the player's tribe.
So if you got info that the enemy is attacking a roman king, you'll still defend him anyway.
And second, from my experience dualing one of the best defense king, he plays Gaul and build TT to raid, and made to top 2/3 robber for almost every week for a very long time.With King/Duke having the most resources, you'll want them to have the most defensive unit if played as defense. And as you said before, Gaul always generate the most defense/hour.
That's why I think Gaul is the optimal choice for defensive king.
In terms of farming, I think Teuton has the worst farming because of the speed of the troops and the limit of 999 outbound waves each village can send.
So Roman and Gaul can usually farm more because EI and TT can farm quicker, such that they can send more waves within the same period of time.
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Chosing tribe 2.0. Types of accounts
Sure, you can play anything. But since travian is a math game, there is always an ultimate solution. Do the math described in previous chapter and you shall see.
a)Defensive governor. Gauls are the ultimate choice. Teutates are best troop for farming due to their capacity and speed. Farm with teutates and build phalanx everywhere. If you have extra resources to spend, haeduans actually make really good defensive troop.
Another option is teuton. Teuton defenders make best dukes and kings due to wall bonus, yet for governor gaul is just much easier.
What about praetorian? Phalanx makes almost two times stronger defense, per hour.
b)Offensive governor. There are two basic types of offensive- hammer and rammer. Rammer is someone who is there to take down wall, and hammer is there to take down buildings/troops.
Teutons make absolutely best rammers, due to their speed of ram production, multiplied by the brewery bonus. Standard composition is clubs+tk+rams.
For hammers, romans have the highest catapult production in game.
c)End game rammer. This is rammer, typically designed to take down wall of World Wonder. Usually such rammer is developed but never used for entire server duration, and only comes out last week. Typically owner of the rammer has satellite rammer just to fight robbers. These are rammers you see in Hall of Fame, typically 200k troops and more. It is really hard to feed, I would recommend going with axe+tk+rams composition, as cost to maintain clubs gets just insane.
d)End game hammer. This would be romans. Main task is to take down levels of World Wonder, and number of catapults that can be produced by romans is suited best for the task.
e)Dukes and kings. Very little choice for defensive nobles here, its teuton and teuton only. First of all, defense bonus of the wall really matters. Second, upgraded paladins make really good farming troops and pay for themselves, where as gaul cavalry does not. Doing so, consider using low population morale bonus. I have never had a chance to try it, but calculations are very promising.
If you choose offense- sure, go ahead with romans, but find out someone else to store treasures.
f)Ghost. This is terminology for strong cavalry unit that attacks treasury, before defensive troops can get there. It is most effectively used middle of the game, and roman EI make the best choice.
g)Interceptor. Typically made out of gaul haeduans, unit is there to catch ghosts. Most teams have one or two of those. Slow and not very effective haeduans really shine when catching surprise attacks.
h)Scout hammer. Some people like building tens of thousands of scouts and sneak peek on other kingdoms. I find no use for this. Most big hammers are constantly farming, anyways.
i)Catapult account. I've seen it a couple times, roman governors without good cropper capital build catapults in every village and send them to follow other players rammers. Roman senators also make the best chiefs.
Economics
Have you ever wondered how to assess what other players have?
Depending on surrounding oases, regular village roughly provides 6k resources per hour.
Capital can be anything, from similar 6k on newbie 6c account, to 80-100k per hour.
How to spot this? Keep an eye at “Top 10 robbers”. This is actually, the most important indicator of player development. Kings and dukes do not fall into this calculation due to tributes, but for others it is extremely accurate.
Same goes for kingdoms, “Top 10 kingdom robbers” shows who is who in world of Travian Kingdoms.
Why this matters- cost to build troops in all 5 buildings is about 100k per hour for roman EC hammer, and 80k for teuton building axe hammer. Everyone else in that range.
Once you start troop production in all 5 facilities, you are building troops that consume 2.5 to 4k crop per hour, per day.
Very quickly, within a month any player gets in the situation when farming is mandatory for troop support. And this is where top 10 comes handy. You simply can not hide anything over 100 thousand troops without farming, and not showing up on the list.
Some in game tricks
1)As a good habit, have two-three cheapest troops defending grey villages and other kingdoms treasuries. This way you will see the attacking army and scale losses of the defender.
2)Don't spike, this ruins game for everyone. Remember- good players farm, and when you get good, you will farm too.
3)Keep an eye on hero experience, attack and defense ratings. All this information matters, just need to learn use it properly.
4)Always run simulations before attacking a known target.
5)Having side hammer to clear out robbers works out better than unnecessary wasting your main hammer.
6)Farm. I can not emphasize how important it is.
7)Early stages of the game, it is really beneficial to clean out those 9 pop grey villages. They typically have 3200 resources and a hero. Clean up them with hero and then raid by troops. Use gold to heal/resurrect your own hero.
8)Always try to make sure farming troops bring good return. Stop farming villages that are giving you less than 30-40%, they are not worth your time. If you really get into control, try to go only after those that give you 80%+ return.
9)Farming clubs pay for themselves in just 3 days, yet very soon you will hit maximum outgoing troop limit, that is 999. Always plan ahead to farm with horses.
10)Tournament square helps to farm all across a map. This immensely helps with staying under 999 limit
11)Always try to farm with minimum amount of troops possible. If you see that 1 soldier always comes back full, increase the number
12)As soon as you develop catapults, consider taking down palace/residence and walls of some grey villages around you. At times, you will be the only one farming this village for several days.
13)If army in grey village is too big, send 1 troop reinforcement. You will know when its clear.
14)Research Engin9tools and Kirilloid inside out, these third party servers provide a great deal of helpful information and data about the game.
15)Always develop your capital. Crop fields>troops in the first 60 days. Run from those who tell you otherwise. Their style is crash and quit. Consider going to at least level 15, and 17-18 if you're serious.
16)Always upgrade troops to maximum and siege robbers. This brings your costs to minimum
17)Another tactics is to clean out robbers and leave some resources in the camp. This way robbers stop coming, and you have perfect hiding spot just for yourself.
18)Talk to people, ask questions. There is a great deal of helpful players out there.
19)Keep an eye on cavalry defense vs infantry defense. There is nothing more terrifying than a dozen of teuthates or a single hero cutting hundreds of clubs.
20)Use herobombing- tactics of suicide killing hero. Helps clear robbers or troops of overly aggressive players.
21)Early stages of the game, try killing enemy hammers on their way back. Dodge the attack, and then calculate return time- catch them and kill same second. Doing so even with a single hero does wonders. You can calculate travel time on Kirilloid
Lastly, a bit about myself-
I have played this game for 6 servers start to finish, 3 of them with BM as governor, dual king, and dual governor. I would like to thank my team for all support and camaraderie during these years. Com2 was my last server, and I am not coming back.
Unfortunately beautiful era of Travian for me is over.
As a postscriptum, I encourage everyone to try and beat two currently standing world records, which I am part of along with [BM]Jak and [BM]Mayo, one of which is largest def score ever recorded on x1 speed server, another one is fastest completion of the capital to level 18(king, 49 days).
Thanks for your sharing.
One thing I don't understand though, why would you think playing defensive as kings/dukes would play Teutons as an optimal tribe?
A king can simply build some TT to raid if he wants. And as a king usually have the most resources, he eventually can build a lot of defense to protect members withiin the kingdom
The wall bonus doesn't really matter when you're a king/duke and the kingdom is under attack?
A normal team would just attack most of the treasury village and you won't choose which village to defend based on the tribe, right?
So I personally prefer Gauls to be the choice of defense for king/duke, because king usually have village spread all over the map because of the need to activate treasury in different location.
And Gauls have one of the fastest defending troops, Druidrider, which can reinforce almost everyone within kingdom.
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Ok, I understand the issue you mention, but it may not be an easy thing to do.
The results of the attacks are calculated at point of impact, and when they were sent doesn't come into account at all.
On the other hand, I personally feel that the way it is gives an extra dimension to the strategy and it brings some unknowns into the mix... that is always good since it makes the game more unpredictable and, in my opinion, more fun.
What does every one else think about it?
Thanks Unknown for the reply.
I do understand your point of view.
However, I think, at least from the wordings of truce itself, is to hope to let players relax and have a holiday, not to be afraid of being attacked.
There is a lot of way to make the game unpredictable.
However I don't think that is one of the appropriate way bringing this kind of surprise to the game.
It is a pure abuse especially to teams who are good at defense, taking away their ability to try having a nice defense.
I personally think this breaks the balance of the game.
If that is really one way of bringing such a extra dimension, then it better be something that every server have, or something that only appears in a night truce server. For normal server, I don't think it's a good idea to have such a mechanics.
Regarding the implementation of the improvement, I have no idea of how to implement.
But given that the administrator got all the data like the travelling time, the sending time, the landing time, etc.
I think it is doable.
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Currently, when truce came, any attack that landed within the period are considered invalid.
However if you send attack within the truce period and land right after the end of the truce, the attack is still considered valid.
This brings huge disadvantages to the defender. As there is nothing you can do to try scouting others attack during truce period, while the attacker can safely send all the attack without being scouted.
Of course you can argue that you can also send attack to the opponent.
However it doesn't seem to be the idea of truce from administrator's perspective.
You're not supposed to gain any advantages with the introduction of truce. It's a period to give you peace.
Therefore I proposed to have an enhancement on the mechanics of truce.
Attack that sent during truce are also considered invalid, no matter the landing time is within truce or not.
This way the attacker cannot take any advantages from the truce. And defenders can do what they can as it is like the normal time.
The game will be more balance(or back to normal) with the introduction of such enhancement.
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Yes, there should be a new 3x server in June.
Hi Georgi,
It would be great if there is a new normal speed server in June. The previous two night truce speed server is a huge disadvantage for non-European. That's why i am not joining any of those server. Although i don't have the database, i believe a lot of the non-European speed server player feels the same as me. More than 3 months waiting for a normal speed server is a bit too long.
Really appreciate if there is a chance of having a normal speed server in June. Thank.
