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Delayed Troop Movements

    • Delayed Troop Movements

      Face it. Because of work and family commitments, not everyone can play Travian and have a strong account. However, as the player pool has shrunk (and at the same time the pool of competent duals/sitters) there have been a number of game mechanics included to make it possible for people to have reasonable accounts even if they can only devote a couple hours a day to them. Most notable of these are raiding lists, trade routes and extra building slots.

      I'd like to suggest the possibility of having a delayed troop movement capability. I'm sure I'm not the only person who would say they can't really commit to being up in the middle of the night numerous times a week in order to be able to send reins/attacks.

      I'd recommend the possibility of adding a fixed time delay to a troop movement. The delay could be in increments of 2 hrs up to a total of 8 hours. Besides the delay, troop movement timing would work as it does now. A delayed movement could be initiated and cancelled in the first 90 seconds. Of course, there would need to be a limitation on the use of the delayed troop movements so that people didn't abuse the system to get multiple attempts to improve attack/defense timing. I won't try and flesh out all of what might be needed to make a reasonable delayed troop function here, but I would be interested in what people think about this possibility.

      I realize that those who can commit lots of time to an account (or have duals) may find this to be objectionable. That has certainly been the case in the past when things have been included that make it possible for those who have less time to be able to achieve some of the same things that had previously taken great time and skill to achieve (particularly things that could be purchased, as are the functionalities I mentioned originally). However, I think that for the good of the game it is worthwhile to consider adding game mechanics that make it more reasonable for people to have accounts even if they have significant real life constraints.
      My first serious Travian server.
      KON forever!
    • I agree that there are a lot of players who love the game, but having problems to spend enough time to compete with others. Making planned attacks gives more time flexibility and especially would reduce the necessity to be online at night hours.

      To reduce the time issue, I'm planning to introduce a special "Peace at night" server. I will help all people who have to sleep at night for some reason. But I'm open to think about other improvements to reduce the time effort. One feature we introduced in kingdoms was the "upgrade to city", which saves a lot of time by reducing the total number of villages.
    • KEEN wrote:

      I agree that there are a lot of players who love the game, but having problems to spend enough time to compete with others. Making planned attacks gives more time flexibility and especially would reduce the necessity to be online at night hours.

      To reduce the time issue, I'm planning to introduce a special "Peace at night" server. I will help all people who have to sleep at night for some reason.
      there excist already a very good (and in my opinion best solution for that problem): Duals and Sitters.

      dont make this game too "casual", it is already pretty casual with the free resources you get out of treasures and tributes
    • From T3.6 onwards there have been many attempts at making the game more casual, easier and less time consuming to play the game. I don't believe it's actually solved any problems up until now, certainly not with the size of the playerbase and I don't think you CAN solve any problems by making the game more casual without taking away the PVP nature of the game even further. Sitters and duals already more than make up for time trouble in a single account.
    • So, in this thread we are talking about giving an account owner a tool that would allow him to manage his account within the time constraints of real life by delaying troop movements. That is a lot different that free resources.

      I do agree that duals and sitters are good tools that are currently available in the game to help with time restrictions. However, there are 3 major challenges associated with these solutions, those being

      1) Availability
      2) Competency
      3) Reliability

      Not everyone knows capable players to dual with. If you try and recruit duals in forums or via profile messages you could end up with incompetent help or even spies having access to your account. Similar difficulties exist with regard to sitters.

      I'd argue that a delayed troop movement mechanism doesn't really make the game more 'casual' than do duals and sitters. After all, good duals and sitters can do a lot more to strengthen an account than just sending troops when the owner is offline. I'd say that, in fact, duals/sitters make the game even more 'casual'. The game designers could have decided that the strength of any single account would be determined by the time availability and skill of only a single player and hence not allowed for sitters and duals. I think they rightly determined that allowing duals and sitters would facilitate people having strong accounts even if they had time constraints. I think that whatever arguments might have existed to allow for accounts to have duals and sitters would apply also to a delayed troop movement function.
      My first serious Travian server.
      KON forever!
    • BTW, there are a couple of game modifications that I have found make it a lot easier to have a strong account with a shorter time commitment.

      One of these is the extra build slots. Previous to these it could easily be the case that during an 8 hour work day or overnight only a couple hours of that time would be used in account building. With the extra build slots it is much easier to keep one's account growing.

      The other mechanism that has reduced the time required to grow ones account is the free rush building under 5 minutes. It used to be that when a new village was settled it would take a few hours to build all of the low level buildings and fields. Now they can be built much quicker.
      My first serious Travian server.
      KON forever!
    • KEEN wrote:

      I agree that there are a lot of players who love the game, but having problems to spend enough time to compete with others. Making planned attacks gives more time flexibility and especially would reduce the necessity to be online at night hours.

      To reduce the time issue, I'm planning to introduce a special "Peace at night" server. I will help all people who have to sleep at night for some reason. But I'm open to think about other improvements to reduce the time effort. One feature we introduced in kingdoms was the "upgrade to city", which saves a lot of time by reducing the total number of villages.
      Peace at whos night? Players own timezone? What does that even mean? :P
    • I don't think I'm opposed to delayed troop movements, although I worry to what extent gameplay would actually change for the better. And to what extent this actually solves the problem. After all, the next time-constraint problem will be that you want to be able to react to incomings at all times. Why not make an ingame tool that can deal with incomings when you're away, so you don't have to be there at the time of the attacks...If more and more things like this keep coming, why play at all? Surely that's the best way to save time!

      My biggest problem with this is that this game is, or used to be, a highly competitive wargame. The only one of its kind. Its time-constraints and real consequences for ingame actions are both a strength and a weakness - you can play as much as you want and at any time, but to be successful you have to play at all times even when you don't want to :D The point is, the identity of this game has been shifting towards a more casual one, arguably since T4. At some point, if you really never have to be online at a specific time because the game can just play for itself depending on time-saving settings (delayed troop movements, delayed marketplace actions, delayed building slot activations, delayed automatic reactions to incomings, just say when ...), it really stops being Travian and becomes one of the many bland casual games out there. This game needs to accept to some extent that time-constraints are part of its nature.

      HappyTimes#EN(1) wrote:

      So, in this thread we are talking about giving an account owner a tool that would allow him to manage his account within the time constraints of real life by delaying troop movements. That is a lot different that free resources.

      Well, giving free resources and being able to send delayed troop movements both allow less time-intensive gameplay. They're not the same gameplay-wise, but they serve a similar purpose.


      HappyTimes#EN(1) wrote:

      I'd argue that a delayed troop movement mechanism doesn't really make the game more 'casual' than do duals and sitters.

      Agreed! So are you arguing to replace one with the other? No, right? You're arguing to put this on top of already existing things like sitters and duals. Do you agree that this would make the game more casual?

      If you do want to argue to replace one with the other, you also have to think about how delaying troop movements and removing the current implementation of sitters/duals would alter the rest of the game. Sitters and duals have player-interaction aspects. Delayed troop movements, probably not so much.


      HappyTimes#EN(1) wrote:

      After all, good duals and sitters can do a lot more to strengthen an account than just sending troops when the owner is offline. I'd say that, in fact, duals/sitters make the game even more 'casual'. The game designers could have decided that the strength of any single account would be determined by the time availability and skill of only a single player and hence not allowed for sitters and duals. I think they rightly determined that allowing duals and sitters would facilitate people having strong accounts even if they had time constraints. I think that whatever arguments might have existed to allow for accounts to have duals and sitters would apply also to a delayed troop movement function.

      Originally, dual accounts were not allowed, but in practice everyone used them. It was impossible to ban duals that had password access to the same account. Things would revert back to that situation if you removed sitters/duals now...This wasn't in the hands of the devs I'm afraid.
    • Ok, fair enough. But from the beginning the dev's reasoning has revolved around making this game increasingly casual precisely to solve the inherent time-constraint problem (which I don't think can be solved without changing the identity of the game). You might draw the line at automated responses, but the devs have been continuously moving that line from T3 onward. Hence my response.
    • Ammanurt wrote:

      Originally, dual accounts were not allowed, but in practice everyone used them. It was impossible to ban duals that had password access to the same account. Things would revert back to that situation if you removed sitters/duals now...This wasn't in the hands of the devs I'm afraid.
      They're called Duals, but in some cases there are three or four (maybe more) people playing on one account. They have a huge advantage, but not everyone wants to Dual. Ergo for those of us who don't, having alternatives is great. This would definitely be useful to us and I can't see how it harms the cheaters duals.
    • That's a valid point. You're also underscoring what I said about things reverting back to the original situation: People can and do still play with more than 2 people on an account even if that's illegal. There's nothing stopping them right now.

      The devs will have to consider the trade-off between making the game generally more casual by allowing late sending, and giving options that help single accounts.
    • Aeneas wrote:


      They have a huge advantage, but not everyone wants to Dual
      Exactly as you said... wants ... it is optional and it has been a game element for 10+ years. If you don't want to play as a dual or a trial (the 2 valid options through the lobby system), it's your decision and that is totally fine but you shouldn't force your prefered playstyle onto everyone else because you think you have a major disadvantage. You just have to spend more time and/or play more efficient to keep up with the dual-accounts.

      I used to play solo and was totally fine with it. Recently i have switched to playing dual because i didn't have enough time to play solo anymore and to play really casual is nothing i could be happy with. After having played with several people i have to admit that i prefere playing dual/trial in a team and really don't want to miss it anymore. Not because I don't have to spend that much time or because i felt disadvantaged solo, but because it's way more fun this way.

      I think sitters are far more of a problem since they have way to much power. Maybe the problem could be solved by limiting the sitter-access a bit...

      But to address the main topic "delayed troop movements" ... i don't think i'd like to see something like that in the game. There are several problems i'm forced to think of when considering such an option. what should happen if the troops are no longer available when they should be sent (killed by an incomming attack) for example.
    • Hey, I appreciate people's feedback on the idea of having a delayed troop mechanism.

      It seems like a general concern that the addition of game elements that would reduce the need for an account to have greater time coverage is that it would make it possible for people to have more 'casual' accounts. As I have read the replies it has occurred to me that it might be useful to have a thread in which people could express their opinions on what defines a strong Travian account. I don't think that it would be appropriate to start such a discussion here as it would move away from the primary topic of delayed troop movements. Perhaps in a few days I'll begin a new thread to discuss what defines a strong account.
      My first serious Travian server.
      KON forever!
    • Can you work your idea a bit more out? would you implement any restrictions?
      or are you just speaking about an autofarmlist?

      i strongley dislikes the idea of a "delayed troop mechanism" the game would become more a pay to win (you would be a madman to think they wouldnt ask gold for this mechanism :D)
      and people who would use this could arrange that their troops are almost never home, so their enemies would never be able to catch their troops sitting at home.
    • I don't want to put forth too many details because at this point in the thread it is clear that with the way people feel about the possibility of delayed troop movement all the feedback on any details would be primarily negative.

      Simply stated I would like to be able to delay a single troop movement by a fixed time. I have recommended fixed intervals of 2 hours up to 8 hours or delays of 2, 4, 6 or 8 hours. For example if I wanted to take part in an offensive that would require I send at 20:47:32 but I happened to be at work at that time, I could instead send my attack at 16:47:32 and specify a 4 hour delay. Fixed delays would keep all other aspects of troop timing as they are now.

      I would never recommend any type of mechanism to send raids in an automated fashion. There would also need to be limits to prevent the delayed troop movement being used to avoid a follow home or as a means of keeping ones troops constantly on the road to protect them. That would mean that delayed troop movements could only be set up for troops currently at home. Delayed troop movements couldn't be used to pull back reins. Only a single delayed troop movement would be allowed for a given troop so there wouldn't be any type of thing like sending reins to A, pulling them back and then sending them to B. Likewise no sending an attack on target A and repeating it after troops return. There has been some concern about what happens if the troops scheduled for a delayed movement are destroyed. If that is the case, they are dead. Delayed troop movements wouldn't protect the troops during the time of the delay. There are a number of other exploits that I can think of (like canceling delayed attacks and sending them a couple hours later with the hope of getting better cat waves) and so in fact a delayed troop movement mechanism would have to be pretty complicated to avoid these.

      There is no doubt that such a mechanism would cost gold. The concept of 'paying to win' is one that has always been a sore spot and is probably the topic for another thread (or an encyclopedia!)
      My first serious Travian server.
      KON forever!
    • New

      Just completed a test account on com7 playing as a hammer. The conditions of the test were that I was only active during a 6 hour period 5 days a week and then available over a 16 hour period 2 days a week. In other words, I slept my normal hours and worked normal hours.

      My account was a serious and successful account, even with such restrictions. I finished no. 3 on the attackers list.

      However, I was only able to personally send attacks for about 1/3 of my kingdoms operations, because land times required that I launch during my normal work hours (which I could not do). For another 1/3 of the operations I was able to come up with a 24 hour dual to send for me. For the final 1/3 I just couldn't take part.

      Now, I'd say that it would be worthwhile to have a mechanism to allow such an account to be involved in 100 percent of the operations without having to resort to getting a dual for a short time just to send an attack. For those who are worried that delayed troop movement would be some advantage for those who only play part time vs. those who can play more, I can simply say that because of the restrictions of my life my original hammer village was zero popped. A delayed troop movement function would not have prevented that. I still finished 3rd on attackers list.

      The player base is shrinking. Dual accounts will still have huge advantages over those who want to play alone and have to live within time restrictions. However, those accounts that do want to go it alone can still build strong armies. They should not be restricted in making use of troops because they have to live normal lives.
      My first serious Travian server.
      KON forever!
    • New

      So, if an attacker can plan his movements ahead like 24 hours or so, so that he can get a decent sleep - can I get as defence player get the option to define possible destinations and prioritize them and set limits as to how much to send automatically, and to send troups such that they automatically only leave such that they arrive 1 minute prior to impact and are automatically withdrawn if no futher attacks are imminent?

      Can we please get a "play me" button for the game?

      Honestly, as much as I understand the "plan in advance" idea, it is not thoroughly thought-through.
      Gruß,
      Rashidix